by susie on 05 December 2017 - 18:12
Duke is right, there is no difference between a civil dog without courage and a prey dog without courage...
both are useless.
The term "civil" in itself for me only describes the genetic will to bite a human/opponent, but we had this discussion before... :(
Defensiv/aggressiv, stable/unstable, courageous/anxious, social/unsocial ....those are the "interesting" traits, and at that point it doesn´t matter if the dog bites out of prey or out of civil drive.
by yogidog on 05 December 2017 - 18:12
by Glock on 05 December 2017 - 19:12
Interesting concept of non classical prey by apple. I heard a trainer refer to large object prey. But no one commented on it
If a dog is seeing a sleeve just as a sees a moving ball. Why should the dog take either of the serious ly ?
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 05 December 2017 - 20:12
i guess the concept of balanced drives eludes most people. It's got to be either one or the other but that dogs can actually transition in drives... naaaaaah... it's either one or the other... transitioning and keeping them in prey is for pussies...
I remember when he was 10 months old and he'd spit that sleeve to go after the helper instead and my Dad said "Keep him in prey, otherwise he'll be so strong that you won't be able to handle him anymore." and that's what I did. We kept him in prey. No need for defense, no need to bring his civil side out. It's all there. The helper doesn't have to activate the dog. The dog activates the helper. And yet, he's social with an excellent temperament. But because he's not defensive and has full grips on a sleeve and drives in on a suit, and hasn't killed me yet, he ain't a real dog I guess.
Everywhere I look, young dogs are started out as defensive as possible rather than in prey. I don't get it. I don't understand whats so terrible about keeping a dog in prey. Doesn't make the dog less of a dog when it's all there. It simply makes it easier to train them. Especially a dog that has learned to bite for real it's so much safer to keep them in a different mindset and not thinking about bitework. But there seems to be that notion that whenever a dog is worked with a clicker, he's made. Whenever a dog is well trained, he can't be real, and whenever a dog is handled by a 125 pound Lady, it can't be a strong dog or when a dog is versatile and actually exactly what the breed should be, it's still not a good enough dog because he ain't foaming out of his mouth trying to attack everyone.
Here he is doing a Civil bite
by yogidog on 05 December 2017 - 21:12
by Glock on 05 December 2017 - 21:12
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 05 December 2017 - 21:12
Unbelievable... you are unbelievable... you seriously don't know a good dog when you see one.
Dude, he wasn't put into aggression. That was not the point of the entire exercise. The helper was passively sitting in a chair. There was no need for aggression. The dog is being led in and basically goes onto the bite. That's as civil as it gets.
Civil literally means that the dog is willing to engage a person without any tools, no sleeve or suit. That's exactly what he did. There was no need to activate him.
And if you can't see the power in this dog you are willfully ignorant!
Please, show me a dog that is powerful with active aggression. Post a Video example of a dog with what you would consider a powerful dog. I seriously need to see what your standard is and what you consider a powerful dog.
by duke1965 on 06 December 2017 - 06:12
by duke1965 on 06 December 2017 - 07:12
by yogidog on 06 December 2017 - 07:12
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