The GSD - a phase-out model - Page 1

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Western Rider

by Western Rider on 25 June 2017 - 20:06

by susie on 12 June 2017 - 20:06 (userip: 89.204.153.2)

I often think about the future of "my" beloved breed...
What will happen to the GSD?

When this breed was created there was the will to create a breed willing and able to work, but during that time ( the early 20. century ) there still was some "room" for working dog breeds, and people as a whole had a different understanding of dogs as a whole ( they either had to be useful=the majority, or they had to be pets only=the minority ).

Times changed, at least over here towns became bigger and bigger, properties became smaller and smaller, neighbourhood as a whole became closer, the "natural understanding for nature" became far less.

In the beginning we started to "transfer" the genetic drives of the GSD breed pretty soon into SchH, later on IPO - the dogs had a job, we had satisfied dogs - pretty smart.

Nowadays people still want to own a GSD, but don´t want to deal with the characteristic temperament/drives of the breed any longer, and they don´t want to "entertain" their GSD according to its needs any more.

The initial temperament of a GSD is not made for an appartement, but for a big property, it´s not made for strangers, but for close family, it´s not made for the porch, but for a "job".

Society changed, does the GSD need to change, too, or should we try to obtain the breed as it was meant to be?.

I believe in the initial characteristics of the breed, even in case a lot less GSDs will be bred in the future.
What do you think?.
 


by GSDHeritage on 25 June 2017 - 22:06


Susie wrote:

"Nowadays people still want to own a GSD, but don´t want to deal with the characteristic temperament/drives of the breed any longer, and they don´t want to "entertain" their GSD according to its needs any more."

Susie a very interesting topic it does seem that there are people today that are changing the GSD to suit their needs over what the founder of the GSD breed intended.

Max von Stephanitz, Founder of Today’s German Shepherd

http://germanshepherdsetc.com/max-emil-friedrich-von-stephanitz/


by SitasMom on 26 June 2017 - 19:06

Smart man!

Maintaining the German Shepherd as a Family Dog

Max von Stephanitz believed that the ideal breeders of German shepherds would be families with only a couple of breeding dogs, in order to facilitate daily contact with the dogs as a way of carefully choosing the dogs which would enhance the breed in the future. “All the wonderful qualities of character possessed by a good shepherd dog will therefore only be brought to light when he remains in the same hands for a very long time, preferably from puppyhood, where having obtained a footing in the house, he shares the joys and sorrows of the family…and our dog is completely ruined in mind and body wherever he is treated only as merchandise…”

Along these same lines, he did not believe in maintaining dogs in kennels on a regular basis and argued that such would necessarily result in dogs which would be unable to perform to their utmost ability. “Whenever the dog is kept in an enclosed kennel, he will not only degenerate physically, becoming stiff, sluggish and lazy, but will also become mentally torpid, and lose all his sharpness and vim.”

http://germanshepherdsetc.com/max-emil-friedrich-von-stephanitz/

susie

by susie on 26 June 2017 - 21:06

Yes, Sitasmom, "we" didn´t take good care of this outstanding breed, and we still don´t.

We don´t take care of its mentally needs ( we are talking about a highly social breed ), and we don´t take care of its physical needs ( we are talking about an active working dog breed ).

Neglect was well known 100 years ago, and neglect is still around, a well acknowledged part of society.

Buying and selling
kenneling only
treated only as merchandise
...

that´s the other side of the medal, for sure not better than neurotic working dogs forgotten on the porch, just different.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 26 June 2017 - 21:06

Depending on the kennel, and who is running it, I don't think it is always a 'given' that all of Max's list ^^^ in Sita'smom's post HAS to be true.
I have known kennel dogs who were kept physically fit and active, whose 'will to live' was not compromised, so no one would have described them as lazy, mentally torpid, or lacking in "sharpness & vim".

But that presupposes the people managing the kennels have little else to do with their time and energy but to pour it into the dogs' wellbeing; and unfortunately so often the day to day reality is that they don't.

In an ideal world every dog, GSD or not, would live en famille with its owners and have the relationship described. It certainly brings out the best in dogs. If done properly; wherever it is not, then there is room for that method of husbandry to become a toxic relationship also.

It really does not matter all that much if you keep your dogs indoors or out; the important stuff is about how you relate to them, how much time you spend with them, the degree to which they get exercise and stuff to interest them, that all their physical needs are properly met, ... and that you do not simply regard them as a commodity, whether that is as a money-spinner or as a "thing to win with".

darylehret

by darylehret on 03 July 2017 - 12:07

“Whenever the dog is kept in an enclosed kennel, he will not only degenerate physically, becoming stiff, sluggish and lazy, but will also become mentally torpid, and lose all his sharpness and vim.”

Definitely agreeing with Hundmutter on the above subject, Max did not know everything (or perhaps anything). I have owned dozens of kennel dogs that this does not apply, and conversely, I have owned other dogs that no amount of freedom from containment could improve their fitness, level of energy or mental acuity. Environment has less impact on genetics than most people would believe.

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 07 July 2017 - 05:07

Why even have a German Shepherd of it is going g to be a kennel dog?
I see no point.
I can t believe any kennel dog is happy. That is property that one owns, usually for monetary gain
All the protection training in the world is of no benefit if the dog is kenneled if you needed help.
Sure the dog is happy when you make time for them, why wouldn t they be happy to come out and play.
It's funny how people pick and choose the portion of Max' ideals for the breed,, that best fits their plans.

Reliya

by Reliya on 07 July 2017 - 05:07

"Why even have a German Shepherd if it is going to be a kennel dog?"

$$$
And no respect for life.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 07 July 2017 - 15:07

I can only speak for situations I have been in:
1) The "Guard Dogs" I helped out with, as a teenager, were not kennelled at all really. They had free run most of the time of the haulage yard, whether open for business or not. Plenty of comfortable shelter but little containment. There was no appreciable difference between their 'joi de vivre', or intelligent reactions, and that of the next two lots of dogs:
(Like Daryl says, they vary, they are individuals)

2) Assisting with my mentor's kennel - she had Show dogs, they were competition entrants and breeding stock, not dogs for "personal protection" or guarding. She usually had an older 'retired' dog permanently in the house, in case of burglars. Other adults did not always get on with each other; there was not masses of room indoors; she fostered children. So it was clearly more practical, if keeping multiple dogs, that they should live outside. Many, many hobby breeders are in similar positions. Rather that, than (almost) everybody except puppy farmers/mills being unable to keep more than one or two dogs! It might not be ideal, even when done conscientiously and well (see what I said above about adequate & proper attention) - but there is no special reason GSDs should not be housed in that way, when nobody is claiming one for ALL dogs, all other breeds. [Fanciers often seem to think that THEIR breed  of dog is somehow unique.]

3) Working at another kennel, where the dogs were in loose-boxes during the day, but out free running in fenced areas at night (with open access kennels for shelter); that solved the intruder problem, the main reason they were kept in the first place. Maybe not ideal either, but the owner paid ME to ensure they were trained and occupied, and physically cared for, he had very little to do with his dogs (but plenty of space and money).

One thing MOST of these had in common was exactly the same (correct GSD) temperament shared by the many individual members of the breed I looked after temporarily, or even just met regularly, that worked for the Police, or the Prisons, or Security Firms, or even as Guide Dogs for Blind People. Some of which lived indoors; and some of which didn't.


kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 08 July 2017 - 16:07

There are so many things that do just come naturally to a dog
Far to many people totally underestimate this breeds desire to please and be connected to his family.
I don't t care if you have one shepherd or more than one, his loyalty belongs to it s family.
He has a natural instinct to protect. Just about every pup i placed in homes with children, I am told how guarded of children they are . no special training needed.
My own dogs are so happy and excited to patrol the boundary lines it s like they have a duty to do so
It done t matter where they land they all maintain that need to do their job what ever that job may be.
I have been told by two officers their dog the best partner they ever had.
I never tire of being thanked for the best dog they ever owned.
Yes they are a working dog and needs job. They need to be maintained Ina fashion that preserves their natural abilities
No shock collar or any amount of training can do more for a dog that WANTS to do his job because he loves it.
Generations of kenneling detracts from the natural born instinct





 


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