old questions for modern day GSD breeders: dewclaws, kink tails, etc. - Page 1

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marsiii

by marsiii on 23 June 2017 - 10:06

Good day to all GSD lovers,

After 8 years, i just came back to taking care of GSD's. The last time i had bred one died 2009 when my country was devastated by worst flooding we had ever known. Out of a west-German-line show bitch i had only two welphings, first one was consistent in quality (all uniform colors and stock coat) and from the second i got only 3 pups and they were very variable in all aspects from pigmentation, to coat length, to bone structure.

Now my question is: Has anyone been dealing with dew claws? Are they prevalent in some lines? Last time i saw one, i was still a kid and that was on a Rottweiler. Right now starting off with a would be foundation bitch (i got a Working Line this time) and a Bi-color. I found out two of her siblings (out of 5) have dew claws.

I also don't like the idea of a high wagging tail, that raises up like the letter "C". Well you might expect that from working dogs like Retrievers and Dalmatians, but not on GSD's. It's drops to normal when my pup is in gait so that's not an issue... or is it?

Thanks in advance to those who would respond.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 23 June 2017 - 13:06

Wouldn't say dew claws were "prevalent" in modern lines anywhere, but that is not to say there are not some families of dogs around where they still occur. Not a lot to be done about them once you have got them, except surgical removal, and whether you go that route or not will depend on how much bother they are likely to be.

If you want a Show Dog or a very active Working competition dog, its a good idea to be rid of them (NB you may need Kennel Club OK for that if you are Showing - depends where you are located). Or if the dewclaws look to be interfering with free movement / liable to injury. Only ones I had were on a Shiloh shepherd and on the vet's advice we left them alone.

There was a discussion on here recently about dogs 'flying' their tails; this is a more common occurance than dew claws. Will try to locate the link to that thred.
If its the sort of structural thing with a too-high tail SET, i.e. genetic, you just have to live with it, and maybe breed it out in future generations. If you are not too concerned with how the dog LOOKS 'cos its a Working Dog, ditto. If you want a physically 'perfect' dog for beauty Shows, give up and try to pick the next puppy more carefully ! jmo.

What is your "etc" ?

Litter sizes and evenness of puppies is a whole different area; lots of variables, lots of questions re the breeding of the two litters you mention, before further comment is possible.

marsiii

by marsiii on 23 June 2017 - 14:06

An imageThanks Hundmutter for those responses, the breeder of the dog left the dewclaws not knowing what to do with them thinking could be something weird special with the two pups since the 3 others didnt have them. Yes, they must be removed preferably 2-3 days after birth cuz they may get stuck somewhere while the dog is in motion and may bleed her and get her anemia (if it can bleed her to death) i'm just curious if it was something tied up with her ancestry. About the wagging tail? i can live with it as long as she doesnt punish me by always hitting me with her long thick tail. And yes, the wagging hook tail was inherited from her mother side with some questionable blood perhaps KNPV i dont know. What else did i forget etc...? oh yah i noticed she had some white patches but theyre gone now, the pencil toes and tar heels are very prominent and the Tan area of the feet are "diminishing" getting her more black as she is growing. This is a good experience for me knowing only Showlines where the Black area in the legs and thighs are the ones disappearing, showing greater Tan or Red area as the mature. Can anyone else share their experiences breeding and taking care of these "old school" working lines? Heres her photo with my Male Dutchie (almost the same age).


by Bavarian Wagon on 23 June 2017 - 15:06

Dew claws are definitely a genetic recessive and will be passed on. Avoiding breeding to other lines that are known to have them would help remove them from the lines, but they'll probably keep showing up. I don't think there's any way to tell which dogs produce them and which dogs don't (from further back in the pedigree) as most breeders probably wouldn't care enough to even remember and clip them off at that 1-3 day mark anyways. Due to the fact that so many of our dogs are related with common ancestors 4+ generations back, the dew claws are very hard to trace especially because most people don't even discuss them and just get rid of them.

The tail is definitely a fault in the show ring, but not the end of the world. Some people care enough to try to breed away from it, others don't. I bred to a male that had a very gay tail when he was excited and working, none of the puppies got it because the bitch proved to throw a lot more of herself in the pups than any of the males she's been bred to. If it's a strong mother line thing, it might not go away without constantly avoiding that line and dogs with that kind of tail.

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 23 June 2017 - 15:06

Whoa, I'm confused. Are we talking about FRONT or REAR dewclaws?

Assuming rears, but the pic posted only showed front, so just making sure...

Rears...I clip off at a day or two old. I have not had the tail issue, but I would try to breed it out without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, if the dog otherwise brings something unique or special. I can predict with decent accuracy when I will get rear dewclaws. I don't sweat it, personally.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 23 June 2017 - 17:06

[I' ve assumed rear, Jenni.] Most of the German dogs and their descendents have evolved not to have them, years ago. I don't recall off hand any breeders of (W)G S/Lines here that I've ever known having to snip them off at 3 days - yes of course that can be done but I was assuming from the way the OP asked that we were already well past the dog in q. being a tiny newborn !

The Shiloh dog in the 'security' kennel was about 2.5 years when we adopted him; his (rear) dews were very obvious, massive, and loose - but my vet still didn't want to take them off unless he eventually sustained some accident that made it necessary. He never did, to my knowledge.

Actually i have only known a very few dogs of any breed (or, often, none !) which had front dew claws ( additional to their 'thumbs'), at least  left beyond the puppy stage.
Most if those I have come across have had them removed as adults, but some haven't and don't seem to have suffered any detriment for that. And then of course there are breeds where double hind dew claws are actually cherished as a mark of their breed !


Bundishep

by Bundishep on 23 June 2017 - 17:06

Its fairly common for a least a few pups being born with single rear dew claws and best to cut off by 4 days old whats more uncommon is to see in german shepherd pups born with double rear dew claws meaning 2 dewclaws on each rear leg and then some pups could be born with only a dew single dewclaw on only 1 rear leg. Very few working line breeders cut front dew claws off.

by Bavarian Wagon on 23 June 2017 - 17:06

"Actually i have only known a very few dogs of any breed (or, often, none !) which had front dew claws ( additional to their 'thumbs'), at least left beyond the puppy stage."

What?!?!?!?! I'm like 99.99999% sure that every breed has front dew claws. Every German Shepherd Dog SHOULD have front dew claws. What thumbs are you talking about? Dogs don't have thumbs.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 23 June 2017 - 17:06

Never had a rear dew. Its absolutely not common.

susie

by susie on 23 June 2017 - 17:06

Would you mind to take a picture of the front paws - when I blow up the current pic they look kind of weird ?
I am not sure if it's just the coat or something else.





 


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