environmental stability is genetic - Page 1

to avoid going off topic in another topic;

environmental stability is genetic IMO

if you have to train a dog to overcome issues on a certain floor/environment, he will most likely have problems on slightly different flooring/environments

if a dog is afraid to go up a certain staircase, he can overcome by going up that staircase many times, but will likely show problem on next type of staircase

IMO this is genetic and passed on to offspring both good and bad

 

Absolutely agree with you on this one. It's genetic. There is such a thing as genetic confidence, however, even that can be ruined.

That being said, the female I was talking about was a maniac. She would jump out of buildings to come back and indicate, she was super confident in many aspects but there were certain things where she would show a tiny bit of nerve.


There are no perfect dogs out there. They all have a weakness, somewhere along the line.

environmental stability is genetic IMO.... if you have to train a dog to overcome issues on a certain floor/environment...

Not that i am disagreeing but are you saying that early exposure is not needed? Can a dog be genetically predisposed but due to lack of exposure be nervous/unsure at first to a new environment?

I think you should allways exposed etc, but saying that certain dogs you can expose and train all you want, but will never overcome issues, where other ones will be fine with minimal extra work put in as a pup/young dog

quote- "Not that i am disagreeing but are you saying that early exposure is not needed? Can a dog be genetically predisposed but due to lack of exposure be nervous/unsure at first to a new environment?"

 

It seems pretty well established that you cannot completely overcome genetic nerve issues. One  example was stairs. A dog with genetic environmental nerve issues can be conditioned to cope with one kind of stairs but another stairs may cause issues until the dog is conditioned/reassured, etc, etc.

Here is my theory, I don't have enough experience with different dogs to consider it more than a theory so I'd appreciate comments from experienced folks-

My theory is that it works the other way also. A dog with a good genetic nerve base can still be cautious when faced with something he's never seen before that's odd/weird/possibly dangerous/etc. However, once the dog learns that the strange/odd thing is OK, he will be fine with other things that are sort of similar. For example, he learns from experience that large noisy, smelly machines are no big deal so it doesn't matter if the machine is a helicopter, backhoe, generator, trawler, etc. On the other hand, the poor nerved dog learns that a backhoe is OK but still hesitates when asked to board a helicopter and you have to teach that dog a helicopter is OK too.

I do believe that things such as: grip; drives; character and personality are genetic and no matter how much you train to 'correct' these things, once pressure/stress comes on, the true genetic nature of the dog comes out. I am not convinced yet that "environmental stability" is one of those but its something i will consider

Yup , the dog either has it or doesn't , no matter how much socialization you put into the it .. will always be nervy .. best to identify the pup at an early age and put it down.

You'd put a dog to sleep over a little bit of insecurity?

Often stressed, but still true -
nature and nurture...

I like Adhahn´s explanation, although it´s not only about "genetically environmental stability", but about the ability to learn, too.

What is "environmental stability" based on?

Already visible in a few weeks old pups ( nature )
- Courage
- Curiosity
- Independence
- Intelligence/problem solving
- the will to please

but later on ( nurture ) those genetically given traits have to be developed by
- the kind of raising / training. The more (positive) experiences, the better.

There is a real chance to even ruin a good pup without positive input, and stimulation.

Yes, it's genetic.

But, when you "breed to standard", you kind of hardwire the genetics in. After that, maybe 10% still won't pass due to genetics. But, then again, you can identify those dogs at a fairly young age and cull them from the breeding program.

Maybe 90% of the dogs won't pass due to poor upbringing alone.

It's easier to ruin a good prospect than to train a worthless candidate...