Bizarre dog fraud case - Page 1

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by vk4gsd on 22 April 2017 - 05:04

Sorry about the vague nature of the post but there is an investigation underway.

A very expensive stud dog was imported here, great pedigree yadayada.

The dog sired a lot of pups who sired a lot of pups so somewhere in the hundreds of living dogs have this sire in the pedigree. Which translates to a lot of total money for a lot of different people.

Get this bit, the dog was studded out to a lot of females.

Here is the sting - due to some rumour and suspicion enough to get police and lawyers activated it has been shown the stud dog unfortunately died in the crate in transit and arrived to the country dead.

Quarantine, transport etc have been forbidden to state that due to privacy laws etc until the case gained enough credibility to get the court to force release of info.

What a huge mess this gonna be.

How did the people get their females serviced not have any questions.

Prolly generations of purebred dog kennel breeding plans are in ruins for multiple kennels. Show ratings, pedigrees, awards for a lot of competitors go in the bin, worth nothing.

by hexe on 22 April 2017 - 05:04

Wow...would guess that people dropped off their bitches early in the estrus, before they were in standing heat, and picked them back up after the 'stud dog owner' called to say the deed was done. If the bitch owners weren't personally familiar with the high dollar dog, the 'stud owner' could just trot out any dog of the same breed and similar color/markings and claim that was he, and who would be the wiser? Few bitch owners would insist on seeing the dog's tattoo or having the microchip scanned and read in their presence.

Wouldn't have been all that hard to pull off, and it's not really anything new, either. These days, however, with the DNA testing available it's a lot easier to prove if there's been fraud perpetrated. The offspring and the offspring's offspring could be re-registered if the correct imposter stud dog can be identified and is himself registered or registerable...

Show ratings, etc. wouldn't be negated, since those aren't based on the dog's pedigree per se, if the correct male can be identified so the offsprings' registrations can be corrected to reflect that actual lineage. But yes, that is some mess and it's unfortunate for all those who were caught in this con. Sure to be lots of lawsuits seeking monetary damages, but I'd not be surprised to learn that the individual who ran the scheme hasn't actually got a pot to piss in nor a window to toss it out of, so there'll be no satisfaction via that route.



Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 22 April 2017 - 05:04

The answer to "How did those people getting their females serviced not know ?" isn't all that difficult. A half-decent pure-bred dog of any breed which is the colour of the 'famous' dog is just going to look 'the same as' to the eyes of the vast majority of owners seeking stud service. They will have no intimate day-to-day knowledge of the dog in question. They will not recognise him from seeing photographs; or possibly even video, online or otherwise.
Unless he is of a breed or colour pattern where there are VERY individual markings that make him easy for anyone to recognise, the vast majority of customers aren't going to know him from another male, they "all look the same". So if they are TOLD a dog is so-&-so, and shown papers for so-&- so, that's the dog they think they saw mate their bitch. Assuming they were even around in person, and didn't just leave it to the stud dog owner.

There will of course be SOME more knowledgeable people; when those turn up they MAY have some suspicions ... but if you were one of them, what exactly would you do about it ? Throw up your hands in horror and say "I don't believe that is the right dog ?" Based on what ? Then you are maybe out your stud fee, certainly out of the popularity stakes, and you can't prove anything anyway. Options are limited, apart from accepting the mating and carrying on as if you were happy with the minor detail of which dog was used. You could offer to pay for a (new) DNA test, I suppose, but that would not give you an instant answer while your bitch is still
standing. If the owner refused, I suppose you can try to get your own sneaky blood sample - good luck with that !
And then afterwards, you bitch to your circle of friends that you had your doubts ? Which is presumably how it happened, that this eventually came to light. Or as far out into the light as it is ... yet.

by vk4gsd on 22 April 2017 - 06:04

Funny how sides formed, the accusers were called jealous haters while others circled the wagons and defended the integrity of their pedigrees like their lives depended on it.

What's amazing is how slow and difficult it is to mobilise the legal system with dog politics stuff.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 22 April 2017 - 08:04

Well if the case is eventually proved, there will be egg on a lot of faces, then, for those who protested it was all on the level. We had a case here in the UK of a well known (and up to then well respected) breeder who started scamming people with the sire of their pups being one it actually wasn't.
Even though I'm fairly sure that male was still alive at the time !
As I recall, yes there were a lot of owners/exhibitors caught out with this and they rightly got very upset - but I don't remember anyone denying the substitution(s) had happened. Some defended HIM, yes, and there was a certain sense in that as he was a very good and knowledgeable breeder and dog judge; but I don't think anybody defended what he DID.
As Hexe points out, if you had a pup that you showed or qualified ("titled") none of that was taken away from them just because it was eventually shown they were fathered by some other dog.
BTW I don't think he's based there any more, but guess who's country, vk,
that breeder moved to when it got too hot for him here ?

susie

by susie on 22 April 2017 - 10:04

Are you sure? This really sounds more than bizarre.

by vk4gsd on 22 April 2017 - 10:04

Well the importer denies it so???

Could all be a conspiracy theory but why would pay for an investigation.

The typical scenario for a highly rated import is to get hip & elbow scores done in country and advertised + heavy campaign at shows + a breed club rating etc.

None of that happened, nobody beside the owner/kennel has seen the dog, not even pics of the dog on their own website taken since the dog arrived.

Who knows, be hella easy to prove the dog exists, if it exists...Occam's razor and all.
 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 22 April 2017 - 11:04

It either happened - and similar things do, obviously, happen (as with the events I cited ^^^, for which a legal sentence was enacted & served, as punishment) - or it didn't, in which case it is 'bizarre' enough to have the ring of 'urban legend' to it. It sounds like there is a court case pending, as far as Pete is aware; I'm sure he can let us know more if that comes to anything ?
Can you really not 'name names', now, vk ?
TBH I'm surprised this sort of misdemeanor doesn't occur more often; the whole dog fancy 'business' being one where very much has to be taken on trust.

susie

by susie on 22 April 2017 - 11:04

" ...has to be taken on trust."

Nothing has to be taken on trust, there is proof for almost everything.
Our "rules" weren´t implemented just for fun, but to avoid scam.

A simple DNA test for every dog and at least this problem wouldn´t exist by now.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 22 April 2017 - 14:04

How is this even possible? Don't have dogs to be DNA'ed to be signed over into the your countries registry?

If I have a dog that needs to be AKC registered there is no way getting around DNA'ing the dog and the DNA is also on file with the SV these days.





 


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