Idiopathic Eplilepsy - Page 1

Anyone know if it is true that there have been cases of idiopathic epilepsy in offsring of Etzel v Stadtfelt and Hera v Stadtfeld? I've seen mention of an epileptic female that went back to a grandson, Wilson v Stadtfeld, but he is so far back in the bitches pedigree, you really couldn't assume he is implicated. Anyone know more?

Kaffirdog, I can't say for sure, of course, but I can tell you I have had ZERO incidences or even heard of any incidences of this and my program is HEAVILY based on Etzel & Hera. I did thorough research prior to any purchases over the years and I have had excellent luck in terms of health with these lines. I poked around and asked the Germans that would know better than I and still heard nothing negative. Average joint production is about the worst I have heard mention of in reference to Stadtfeld lines. That breeding was repeated so many times with such good results- it defies logic to think something like epilepsy was rearing its head and everyone just ignored it. Possible, I suppose, but even in talking to people who know many of those dogs personally and speak to Otto Grasekamp or have known him for years, I have not heard a single mention of anything like this. And believe me, I tried to leave no stone unturned when researching! I had help, too.

If it's idopathic, and there have been no other mentions, I would assume the bitch had another of the 1000's of causes for seizures. I dealt with an epileptic dog for over a decade. His started after a reaction to a rabies shot.

Here are my dogs so you can see the breeding and how heavy these lines are in them.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2257371-veronica-von-der-prinzenbruecke

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2432801-madox-von-der-emsaue

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2375698-dora-von-der-gewurzwiese

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=578580-capri-vom-hagenberg

These dogs are ROCK SOLID in terms of health and overall hardiness. That's part of what made me choose them. Also, the age at which Metin and Uno sired litters is ahead of the curve. Not that it's proof against epilepsy, but I have simply never heard anything remotely resembling a problem so serious. Hope that helps! 

Thank you Jenni78

That is reassuring. There is a comment on the pedigree of Wilson Stadtfeld and the pedigree of the epileptic concerned has Wilson on one side and his uncle, Metin, on the other and since I have offspring from a Rabia daughter, I wanted to check into it a bit.

Sounds like angry ignorance :-( Something terrible happened to their dog and they are lashing out- misdirected anger.

Seizures are so complex and sooo many things can cause them. I'd be VERY careful claiming it was genetic unless there were multiple incidences. These are pretty prolific lines, too.

That was how the post struck me as well Jenni, but I have heard from a reliable researcher that Wilson has produced a fitter so if that is the case, at least one parent must be a carrier and I'd like to check as far as possible that it isn't Rabia.  SHe cannot tell me the name of the fitting dog, but she could tell me it wasn't Hawk.

ONE dog having seizures means almost nothing, though. A dog with seizures just may have Wilson as a parent.But that doesn't mean Wilson is the cause or that ANY dog in the pedigree is the cause of the seizures. A litter where more than one has them, sure. Cause for concern. But we don't have nearly enough information. Seizures are not genetic. Epilepsy CAN be, but often isn't. This is just way too vague to spend a minute worrying about it. I am as paranoid as they come when it comes to health records on dogs. I check every dog I can find that is descended off or a sibling to what I am looking to buy. I ask owners how dogs died if it seems young to me. I try to investigate all rumors. When I bought Dora, I went through the list of Ike v Mohnwiese progeny and siblings and contacted people to ask about their dog's health (Ike died young of a rare cancer so I was concerned). I wanted to make sure it was a fluke and not a dirty secret. With the number of dogs they have produced, surely more than ONE would have the problem if it were of genetic origin, no???

Here is the ped. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=693857-mahalia-zemira-blessing

Looks to me like someone bought a BYB dog that could have had issues from any number of causes, not the least of which, haphazardly-bred ancestors, but environmental reasons are high on the list of seizure causes. Generations of untitled, untested stock from breeders with questionable goals. Really really hard in this type program to point a finger.

My feelings too Jenni, the pedigree of Mahalia did not strike me as a carefully thought out one and the poster offered no evidence of he claims that Hawk and Wilson were the source..
 

I know. I sense a lot of frustration- which is understandable, but also expected (hard lesson) when you buy from a "breeder" like that. A good breeder would be horrified by any cause to believe their dogs carried something so awful and would surely attempt to get to the bottom of it. But as it stands, this is like me blaming my auto-immune disease on a particular ancestor that rode the Mayflower.