Trainers on Long Island Located on Long Island, NY? - Page 1

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marjorie

by marjorie on 29 June 2016 - 15:06

Does anyone know of a good dog trainer located on Long Island in NY? ? I will only use a trrainer who works with positive reinforcement. Casey James is horrible with strangers coming to the house. He will bark and lunge and carry on like a madman and he scares the shit out of people. When they react with fear, he gets 10 times worse. I have worked with himwith sit/down/stay and he is perfect- without distractions :( THAT doesnt cut it! He will sit/down/stay for 1/2 hr but let that doorbell ring and he goes into a zone. He missed his critical socialization period due to many surgeries. He couldnt go out until he was over 2 yrs old. The calcification in his neck has come back, so no quick corrections with a collar. We are moving at the end of September, so all will be strangers to him. I need a good trainer who can guide me with handling intros.


by beetree on 29 June 2016 - 16:06

Hi Marjorie,

I hope all goes well with your health these days! I don't have a trainer to recommend, but only a suggestion.

I can't remember what site I was at, but I watched a video dealing with this problem. The solution was to first train the dog to Go to Your Spot. This would be his dog bed, and placed away from the entry door but okay to still be visible.

Once the dog understands that command, people would ring the doorbell. You send dog, To his Spot. People come in, greeted etc, move into the home.

Then the dog is released and praised. Food for thought, for you, I hope this helps.

by duke1965 on 29 June 2016 - 16:06

this is example that is discussed in another topic lately, only positive training will work only TILL other triggers are more interesting than reward/praise,
My advise is to let go of 100% positive first and find a trainer who has good balance of reward/correction, and also understand that the longer you wait to correct him misbehaving, the bigger the "fight" will be to set him straight again

good luck in your search

cherub

by cherub on 30 June 2016 - 02:06



Hello Marjorie,
Debbie Feliziani of Dog Works Canine Form and Function (631.218.3466 Holbrook) is a very good trainer and her resume is extensive. Not only has she trained and titled her dogs in Sheep, IPO, AKC etc etc but she maintains her cont. educ. thru world class level trainers. She has extensive knowledge with many different breeds and temp. challenges and she is honest and caring.

I know Deb uses motivational first where appropriate but, just talking out loud, it might be a bit unrealistic to think a dog that has gotten to this level will be handled only thru motivation. A good book to also read is "Ruff Love" by Susan Garrett.

I commend you in your desire to give your dog the life he deserves in correcting these issues. I wish you the best of luck and hope your transition goes smoothly. All the best!

Q Man

by Q Man on 30 June 2016 - 13:06

Using Motivational Techniques is GREAT...and that's how I like to train too...but not all dogs and all situations will be resolved by using Motivation...
Motivational Techniques are super for TEACHING but when you get to the point of PROOFING then you have to use Compulsion...The good thing is by teaching the dog how to do something (using Motivation) then the dog does know what you want and how to achieve the reward...So when the dog BREAKS the command then he should receive a correction...And you ONLY give an appropriate correction...Nothing over the top...You only use a correction that breaks unwanted behavior (for instance: breaking a "Down" command when a distraction is introduced)

You need to introduce Distractions slowly but light corrections...If you can't use a Prong Collar maybe an E-Collar would be better and a great tool if used correctly...

Everything depends on how your dog reacts to Distractions and how and if he can listen when you correct him...Some dogs can hear you when you give a correction and don't need much of a correction whereas others are very "head strong" and can't hear you...so a stronger correction is needed...

~Bob~

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 30 June 2016 - 14:06

There must be a clear positive, a clear negative, and no blurred lines in between. I'm not picking on you in particular, Marjorie, just using this as an example of the serious downside to the thought process that all humane training is positive only. I realize that there are wonderful trainers who employ these methods correctly and with good success; however, the vast majority of the public thinks positive reinforcement means no negative consequences, ever, except lack of reward and that is super dangerous thinking, imo.

I often have people comment or inquire as to "how" I get the control on my dogs that it takes to take them out places like restaurants, etc. Well, by common sense application of rewards and corrections. It's certainly not rocket science. But when I make suggestions as to appropriate corrections, I get push-back in the form of "Oh, but that collar looks so mean," or "My trainer says never to correct, only ignore or not reward" and the like. Meanwhile, my dogs are happy as clams, getting to go just about anywhere, and their dog is stuck at home because it cannot behave in public. So, which is "mean," now?

Again, Marjorie, sorry for the mini-rant but your question hit a nerve due to some conversations this past weekend. You would be well-advised to take the advice in this thread here.

marjorie

by marjorie on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Thanks, everyone for the suggestions. I spoke this morning with someone who came highly recommended from a trusted breeder. She does feel that a good part of CJ's issues are because of his serious health problems starting at 4 mos of age, that required serious surgeries which left him housebound for the first 2 years of his life, with no contact with the outside world. He couldnt wear a harness or a leash when recovering, his neck being slit from the bottom of his ear down to his collarbone. Then his disastrous alter in which vet forgot to tie off a blood vessel, and he developed a huge hematoma in his abdomen, had to be opened up and a compete abulation had to be done. The calcified mass is back, in his neck, wrapped around his jugular and laying on the cervical nerves to his spine, so we are watching it, hoping it wont get any bigger. That surgery was brutal and I would hate to see him have to go through that again, as it is a very risky surgery, and be housebound with no activity for another year ... :::::::::sigh:::::::::::::::: we cant turn back the hands of time, for what has been is history, so we have to make our way forward from here. She said he will never be perfect, but we can work on modifying his behavior. I am constantly reinforcing the sit stay down and nothing in life is free . We will meet the trainer after the holiday weekend, so fingers crossed.

Bee, I never really fully recovered from when I was so ill. I still have nerve pain every now and then, but it could have been much worse. I narrowly averted being put in the hospital in an induced coma with a feeding tube, so I consider myself lucky. I tire much more easily than pre shingles days, but considering the drs said i had one of the worost cases ever seen, I cant complain... I just have to realize I have limitations, now, and cannot do what I used to be capable of doing :(

xoxo to those who responded :)

marjorie

by marjorie on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Jenni, the problem with corrections or shock collar, aside from the humane issue, is that the calcified mass in CJ's neck has grown back. The specialist believes it was from an untreated injury he retained before he came to me. CJ isnt even supposed to wear a collar as they dont want the mass to be irritated or any pressure put upon it, which could cause a piece to dislodge or cause it to become inflamed, at which point it would start laying down more calcification! It is in a very sensitive location where it could do major damage to his mobility :(

marjorie

by marjorie on 30 June 2016 - 21:06

Bee, I have him go to his crate when people come in, which he doesnt mind, at all. I just tell him to kennel up, and he goes right there without a problem. I have no walls downstairs in my house, its a big great room, so he can see everything. If people come over for a longer time, he goes to the guest quarters, downstairs, where he can still see everything, so he isnt cooped up, or into my bedroom. He is such a fabulous dog in every other way, that it just hurts my heart. He is a good soul, never giving me grief- ready to swim and play for 5 hours at a time, or, when I was so ill, lying next to me in bed, for 3 months, never asking anything of me, but giving me his all. He never chewed anything, never peed or pooped in the house, even as a pup, in fact, if he has to throw up, he lets me know so he can throw up outside. He is funny, smart, and has never made me raise my voice, aside from his attitude with strangers, though there are some he loves instantly.. go figure...

TIG

by TIG on 01 July 2016 - 03:07

Marjorie, I've been gone from the board for some time so it was great to see you posting when I opened up the forum for a quick see. Sounds like your household is still dealing with fallout from health issues. I'm so sorry. My prayers that things will slowly get better ( or better yet quickly).

You have so much to offer this board's members. Hope you stay linked.

Re CJ I have a backup name I will PM you. She's in NJ and a top top obedience person so will probably know people to help you.

First things first you have to desensitize him to the doorbell and knocks at the door. A good trainer will help with that but the sequence is something like this. Does he have a favorite friend or relative or you a good dog friend that's ok with him? Go to Lowe's and for about $10 you can buy a portable doorbell which you can set off. Then to the door to meet his favorite person who has treats in hand.(I might even start with no one there- just take him and show him no reason to bark if bell goes off) Repeat repeat repeat then start working on quiet or place or kennel or what ever you want - all with a friend. Get it steady there before moving onto strangers ( start with lesser known - to him- dog friends that are ok with big barking GSD).

I have not seen this done but because of the neck issues it might be worth a try. With some dogs you can use sound to interrupt the brain from a behavior it's engaged in that you don't want. Thus the use of rattle cans/bottles with pebbles or coins. Problem is it's never worked on any of my shepherds especially for barking alert behaviors - they like to hear themselves too much Wink Smile or are too focused on what they are doing BUT I've seen advertised some boxes for outside use with barking dogs that you place on house or fence and when it detects barking it sounds off - not sure if it's audible or ultrasonic but I'm presuming  it's louder than a rattle can so if you can figure out how to adapt it to manual use it might be worth a try.

Citronella is also used as an anti bark measure so you might be able to have a spray bottle at the ready ( plain white vinegar may also work - you just are associating a smell and a behavior set.) I am presuming the citronella is simply sprayed near them not at them.

I have often used  a spray bottle of plain water as correction. Even dog water nuts do not like getting hit in the face with it as a correction. Doesn't hurt them just their ego. Mostly the surprise factor. The addition of a tiny bit of the white vinegar can add the smell factor  without hurting them cause the solution is so dilute.

I would certainly check into some of the aromatherapy and homepathic (rescure remedy) products to use as adjunct support to the retraining

Finally you may want to try and get a consult with Dr. Karen Overall. She is/ was the pioneer in the use of human antipyschotic meds in dogs. Tho beginning to be a bit overused these days imho, there are certain situations where they can make a huge difference. I knew a guide dog that as he aged began to show unsureness in large open noisy areas ( such as a convention). The belief was it was a physical change caused by aging that then caused the behavior change. The physical change was most likely hearing. But Dr. Overall suggested an older human depression? med that worked wonders and allowed his confidence to rebound and he could continue working. One caution if CJ is showing true aggression these drugs must be used with great caution as some such as Prozac can actually increase aggression.

Word of warning - desensitivity and pure positive can take a very very long time ( thus the attempt to try to find alternative "corrections" through sound and smell.) My longcoat years ago got spooked about going to the vets when as a young dog he had a very  bad experience including among other things a punctured ear drum. So for a good portion of a year I spent many Saturdays hanging out at the vets from 9 to12 just to reinforce good behavior, comfort level and friendliness to staff, clients and dogs. It worked which is the good news but he had a lot going for him in his early socialization that apparently CJ missed out on.

BTW is this behavior location specific - ie at home? What does he do in a new neutral place ( as opposed to his known places to walk or play - which places he might consider his)?

Good luck and please keep us updated on his progress.






 


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