HD - Page 1

I really do believe that HD is hereditary, and later on ( after the pups left the breeder at 8 weeks ) environment is able to change the results to the better or to the worse. I have seen too many puppies with already deformed joints to believe in environmental influence first and foremost.

I tried to research old DDR databases for a while now, but I am not used to DDR rules... The HD results of former DDR breedings were impressing.
Look at http://parchimer-land.homepage.t-online.de/archi2.htm
You need to scroll down to " HD Ergebnisse der DDR ".
They started very early, in 1968, from 1979 on they used "HD free " dogs only, the results were outstanding.

My question: Within DDR they decided between " HD free " - "slight" "medium" and "severe" HD only - there is no normal / almost normal / still allowed...
Have they been able to almost "breed out" HD or did they call " HD free" every dog within "our" SV rating "normal / fast normal / noch zugelassen" ???

In case "HD free" really is "HD free" I´d be more than impressed, but in case DDR "HD free" meant everything from "normal" to "still allowed" this would change everything.

I am not able to find a comparison, that´s sad.

Susie - I agree that HD is hereditary. The state of the hips will change after the puppies are 8 weeks old. The changes are usually influenced by the wear and tear at an early age because many people try to do too much too soon. Too much exercise and beginning training too early puts too much stress on the joints leading to excessive erosion of the joint. People just have to learn to wait and give the soft bones a chance to set.

The comments that you make regarding what the DDR did is interesting and, for me highlights the shortcomings of the current way that the SV grade hips and elbows for dysplasia. Normal is HD free, Fast normal means that the hips show signs of HD presence but not sufficiently bad enough for the animal not to be used in a breeding programme, and then we come to Noch Zugelassen which means the animal has HD but meets the minimum requirements for breeding. The problem with this system is that there is no reference scale between each category to show how wide the gap is between each grade. This is where the Noch Zugelassen lets the system down. The system would benefit more from a numerical scoring basis. For example each hip would receive a numerical score with Normal being 0,0 and Fast Normal beginning as say 2/3 for each hip with a maximum total score of up to say 10. Noch Zugelassen would start at a minimum of 11 to whatever total score considered to be the maximum for the dog to qualify for entering a breeding programme. The numbers that I have used are just as an example of how the system would benefit the breed. This is the system used in the UK but I do not remember the numbers that they use now.

I also think that matings between sire and dam who are rated as Noch Zugelassen should be banned. These matings make the situation worse albeit that the occasional good hips would be present. Quite a few dogs coming from Germany to the UK in the 80’s were rated as Noch Zugelassen and when x-rayed for HD produced scores that were way above the maximum scores permitted and, therefore, not fit for breeding. This sort of system would guarantee that only the best dogs for the HD problem would be used. All scores should be a matter of public record.

For me the present statistical evidence used to demonstrate improvement in the hips and elbows are weak. We all know that not all animals are x-rayed and this means that there is a huge difference in statistical evidence relating to so few dogs that are used to produce these figures and the total number of GSD’s bred.

Mackenzie

"For me the present statistical evidence used to demonstrate improvement in the hips and elbows are weak. We all know that not all animals are x-rayed and this means that there is a huge difference in statistical evidence relating to so few dogs that are used to produce these figures and the total number of GSD’s bred."
That´s our main problem, but it´s not only about the not x-rayed dogs, but about a lot of x-rayed dogs whose x-rays are not sent to SV because of hip problems.

I´ll try it once again: Does anybody know about the DDR rating system?
What was there standard for "HD normal" ?

Really nobody?

Try this breeder must be a lot of knowledge about  oldschool  DDR GSD send him a mail.

http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/

On Dogs' HD, by the Institute of Canine Biology (Environmental role and the Genetic role):

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/the-10-most-important-things-to-know-about-canine-hip-dysplasia

Excellent article. Highly recommend any one with dogs read it.

Thank you!

That´s a lot of proof for "nature and nurture" - something I 100 % believe in, but I really thought that there are several members involved in "DDR" dogs on this board. They should know about the former DDR HD rating system. Why does none of them answer my question?

It´s too late to change the title now / my fault - may an Admin change my title into "HD ratings in the former DDR" ???
Maybe then someone involved in DDR dogs will step in and answer my question.

There is site www.parchimer-land.de where information showing a table of HD results can be found.The table ca be found under DDR Info. There is more articles regarding the DDR dogs.

Click on the USA flag on the home page for the English version.

Mackenzie

Mack, I posted this site in my initial post...
I only want to know "What was called " HD free " within DDR combined to the current SV rating system.

Sorry Susie I missed that in your first post. I thought that it was interesting to note that the DDR had four grades for hips. I am still researching to find out how the basis for arriving at their grades.

Mackenzie