Would you send these to OFA - Page 1

Vet says dog's hips and elbows are OK. What about the x rays themselves (technically)? X rays taken at 18 months of age. GSD male. Thanks for your input.

Yep .. send them .. OFA good enough .. hips fair to good and elbows normal .. positioning is good!! I doubt a second set of x-rays will be significantly better or change the results. Results can vary however as in some fairs turn out good and some goods turn out fair ... who knows ??

TX bubbabooboo.

I´d redo the hips for my own peace of mind.
Elbows look good ( I´m no expert, just my gutt feeling ) - in case of hips the positioning is not that good ( left leg, kneecaps should be in the centre / right leg is okay, dog is not laying flat, left side higher than right side ), otherwise hips look okay, but could look better for sure.

TX Susie.

Sorry, positioning is NOT good IMHO. They're good enough to pass, but you might lose a grade from those xrays. OFA is being very strict and weird on their ratings right now. I've seen what should be excellent only get a good (literally, nicest hips I've ever seen on a GSD) and what should be Fair has failed.

Why not send to the SV? At 18 months, you can't have an official certification from OFA but you can with the SV.

Thanks for the information Ramage.

It is always good to know how the system works and why it is largely a bunch of BS. In Germany 12 months is fine and in the USA it is 24 months. At 12 months the dog is not close to mature so why judge hips and elbows at 12 months ( money ???). Two years is obviously much closer to an age that matters but why not do hips at 24 months and 72 months for breeding stock?? It is a lot of smoke and mirrors as some dogs will pass at 12 months and fail at 6 years. Six years is where the problems with hips and elbows begin to show in GSD. If excellent vs good positioning can change the outcome of x-rays so much then I guess the people with deep pockets can shoot 10 sets of X-rays and send the best set while the rest of the owners can not afford to let the perfect be the enemy of the good ( money again ). The SV and OFA systems are better than nothing but everyone should understand that both systems can be "gamed". In reality fair can be borderline, fair or good depending on the games played and good can be fair, good or excellent depending on the skill and money used in the game. The OP had a set of x-rays "good enough" to give passing hips and elbows and that is the reality of both the OFA and SV scoring systems.

A dog with GENETICALLY bad hips has them at 1yr, I believe is the reasoning for certification at 12mos.

Koach, the left leg needs to be rotated. Patella is too far on the outside, if you want to nitpick on positioning. They're diagnostic. If it were my dog, I'd not bother since you can't certify at 18mos anyway.

It would be difficult to correlate joint problems with genetics at 12 months or any age .. there is no known genetic mutation or genes proven to be responsible for problematic hips or elbows. There are likely many genes involved in the expression of structure and joint development in dogs and humans and it is the interaction of genes with environment that contributes to either great or defective hips, elbows, etc. If there is any proof that hip or other joint development problems are correlated with genetics at 12 months even remotely equal to that observed at 24, 48, or 72 months it has yet to be written down by scientists or shown in published research. One truth of science is that prediction based on earlier measurement is prone to error more so than instantaneous measurement at the actual time of decision. In essence predicting good hips in later life based on a measurement at 12 months is inherently less precise and accurate than a prediction based on an observed measurement made at 24 months or 72 months. Most dog owners want to know if their dog will have functional hips and elbows at age 8 years to death. A dog that has inherited good hips via genetics and proper environment should have pain free and functional bone structure at the end of life regardless of age unless injuries or diseases are involved. The SV and OFA are more concerned that dogs can be bred, trained or sold by basing hip health on an early measurement. End of life hip function for important and prolific bloodlines is much more important to breeding the next generation than a 12 month hip score of an individual animal. Often the vertical pedigree of a dog will reveal as much about the bloodline and possible joint concerns as the dog's hip scores. If you want to know what a dog is then look at him but if you want to know what a dog will produce look at his litter mates and brothers or sisters. Many if not most breeders can do more to insure healthy joint function in their bloodlines by feeding a species appropriate raw meat diet ( little or no plant based carbohydrates ) and giving their puppies and dogs plentiful lifelong exercises that build strength and endurance. Rather than focusing exclusively on OFA and SV hip scores of the puppy's parents that are based on the interaction of the parent's environment and genetics look to the joint health of the bloodlines and the joint health of the parent's vertical pedigree.  The so called great Fero below had some stinkers in his vertical pedigree.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=268-fero-vom-zeuterner-himmelreich