Character - Page 2

"...and most do have that capability..." - NO - everybody who raised several puppies by himself knows that dogs are different by nature already.

The dog gives back to their human what the human gives to the dog.  All humans never give enough to get maximum results from their dog.

I have bred a lot of pups from very similar bloodlines and the resemblance is striking in the adults, even in different environments. Now, of course I try to put them in homes with like-minded folks when it comes to rearing and training, but still- even their little quirks are so similar that it cannot be "nurture." I have a FB page full of people who laugh at the similarities- they may all be good people who mean well, but they are NOT raising them all identically. There are certain problems I can predict in certain homes (not major problems, just minor roadblocks along the way that need a little help getting around) but the CHARACTER of the dogs remains consistent, in the vast majority of them, to what I saw very early on and what I predicted they would be. I do not think so much that I have super powers as that my bitches tend to be strong producers of pups like themselves and that genetics trump environment *unless* the environment is extreme in some way.

So what I'm getting from the responses is that nature plays a big role in the overall character of any dog and nurture has to be extremely negative for it to damage a naturally 'good' dog. Also that, even if nature may surprise you at times, it's a rarity and almost impossible to get a good dog from genetically 'poor' dogs. Jenni78 and Susie(I'm assuming you're also a breeder), from the litters that you have bred from very similar bloodlines, have you by any chance got a pup/s markedly inferior (character wise) to the average character of the rest of the litter mates or has it always been the case that the characters vary but within a very narrow range as expected?

No, Nay, I am no breeder, but during the years I have seen a lot of litters, I chose my pups out of several litters, and I saw a lot of littermates growing up. Most of their ancestors I knew personally, too. There is no easy black and white. Sometimes litters are very similar, although the pups behaviors still differ. Sometimes there is a wide range of different temperaments. The character of the adult dog is the sum of genetics and environmental influence. The older the pup, the more it´s influenced by environment, good or bad.

quote from above '' The dog gives back to their human what human gives dog. All humans never give enough to get maximum from their dogs'' If we consider quote to be truth, then '' All dogs never give enough to get maximum from their humans'' Dear naytejr, Get involved with people who love the GSD on many levels. If environment is enough to create good dogs we can stop breeding pure breeds now. Wait for BBBB to argue out of the other side of its mouth on most posts. God Bless BBBB

A dog with weak genetic character can never become strong under stress regardless of training or environment. A dog with strong genetic character has incredible resilience and can usually recover from bad training or nurturing. A dog with weak genetic character needs the best nurturing and training to flourish. Dogs with weak characters are very good in familiar situations or environments, but when confronted with the unknown or threats the weak nerves will cause dog to revert to what the genetics are.
I have seen litters of two hard dogs that had pups that were extremely weak nerved expressed through extreme shyness or extreme aggression.....but that is not the norm. I have also seen litters from parents in which one is shy and pups were sound, but again that is not the norm.

Grateful to be learning from members who have got years of experience in the breed. Dog breeding is not an exact science for sure.

Naytejr,

I would say there's been a spectrum. Nothing where I was like "holy cow, who are your parents again?!" But I can think of one instance in particular where there was a pup unlike any pups I'd had before, in that he was far less precocious, had somewhat lower drive, but in my eyes he lacked the strong confidence early on that I was used to seeing out of that bitch. I described his behavior to some knowledgeable friends who said I was too hard on him, they all mature differently, blah blah blah. I had previously only had very solid pups from that female, in all honesty never a shy puppy, so I erred on the side of caution and sold him to a pet home. He was not a nerve bag, but he was reserved enough that I did not ever see him being on par with his siblings.

Well, fast forward a bit, he's 13 weeks old and the people call me for training help because he's a handful. I hooked them up with a K9 trainer friend of mine in their area and he excelled and he thought the pup was great. Maybe he truly was just a later bloomer. They are 3 years old now and nerves are very good to outstanding. But I still wouldn't breed that dog...LOL. Too many others that were strong out of the box so to speak to take a chance that nurture may be what made him the strong dog he is today.

Late maturing pups and adults are quite common. If genetics is to blame for all puppies who are not "good enough" to please poor trainers and those who rear puppies from 8 weeks in a less than wise way then it must be the same reason that a family with 8-12 children from the same parents don't have two children the same in both appearance or personality ?? The oldest children get more attention and structured parenting from the parents and the youngest are almost raised by their siblings. How does that usually work out?? Are the oldest children the more serious?? How is it possible that the oldest child in a family of eight siblings from the same parents will be the more serious and perfectionist while the youngest of the 8 to 12 from the same parents will be a mess ... hint ... could it be environment ?? Children raised in the same household from the same parents from large families of 8-12 children usually ( not sometimes ) turn out quite different and these differences are usually apparent in adult behavior and appearance as well.  Link to an article on birth order and personality based on birth order below.

http://www.parents.com/baby/development/social/birth-order-and-personality/