Line breeding on females? - Page 1

Hello all, 

I've read a lot of threads on this forum and there's a lot of working GSD experience on here. I'm buying my gsd in two weeks (kavallerie kennels Xly z canczech X Hope vom Grafental) and am quite excited. My current GSD is a rescue (we think he's American/Canadian type shepherd) and is almost ready for area search certification through NAPWDA. Very smart, low play drive, and a little sharp. He has his RATI and RATN. I'm proud of his bad butt! I have many things planned for my little girl and am very excited. 

This is my first post so I thought I'd do a short intro about my dogs (: 

Anyways, I was curious as to why dogs are not line bred on females. Would it be okay to line breed on a female or is it a huge no no? It was something I noticed while looking through several pedigrees.

thank you!

Some breeders do not put as much emphasis on the dam's lines as the sire's and even less will line-breed on the female's genetics. I chose a pup that is line-bred on a strong female, here's his ped: Thor v Ron
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2054751-thor-vom-ron

It may be a matter of trying to find a strong female line on which to breed why some breeders don't do it, or just that it's easier to sell pups that are line-bred on a well-known male, I don't know. I have always considered the female's contribution to be just as, if not more important than the male's. So if a litter is line-bred on a strong female then that has my curiosity more than others. Oh, and congrats on your pup, I'm sure he/she will be everything you wish and more.

Who says dogs aren't linebred on females? For every male they're linebred on...that male also has a mother ;)  

Here's one of the best litters I ever bred, linebred on a bad@$$ female. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=679661-brix-vom-eisenherz

Think it has a lot to do with reputation  and availability  [rather than just

misogyny  !   ].   One stud dog can sire dozens of litters compared

to a bitch's output ;  and these days AI  is also a factor.

The Germans nonetheless used to do a great deal of line-breeding on

acknowledged good producing females,  e.g.  Wilma v. Kisselschlucht, 

Liane Wienerau,  Flora Konigsbruch,  Ottie Trienzbachtal,  Palme v.

Wildsteigerland, Birke Filsperle, Britta von Malvenburg,  Hasel Tannenmeise ...

and maybe are still doing the same, based on more recent Siegerins etc.

 

It takes longer to figure out what has been produced successfully from any

bitch, because of the volume ratio.   

Thanks Koots for sharing your beautiful boy Thor. I think that could definitely be some of the reasoning.

That's very true, Jenni! Perhaps I wasn't looking at the right pedigrees (: I think it's a fascinating idea to linebreed on females and I think it's really cool that you line bred on one of yours!

Yeah, males do produce more. I can see where that would come into play and the fact that they don't have to stop working to whelp and raise a litter probably helps. I would hope it wasn't misogny! 

Thank you for all the responses I'm sure I'll have more questions as time goes on! 

some great dogs are linebred on females in many cases

performance wise, the athletism of the offsprings are inherited from the dam.  During fertilization, each offspring inherits half of its chromosomes from the sire andhalf from the dam.  But the dam gives one thing that the sire can't, it is the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA).  The mitochondria, being the powerhouse of the cell is where the fuels for energy are being manufactured.  From the dam, mtDNA is passed to both the male and female offsprings, but only the female offsprings can pass it on further to their progenies.

 

We are gamefowl breeder and our hen lines are unbroken since 1974, they carry the same mtDNA up to the present, and we have proven its worth.  The bedouin breeders of arab horses have been doing these method for thousand of years.  Some modern breeders also follow these method..........http://performancegenetics.com/thoroughbred-mitochondrial-dna

 

 

 

Just a bit of info:  have you all not heard the saying "your kennel is only as good as your females or dam lineage??"  I sure have and it has been proven to be true over and over again.  Just a little diddy for your info bank.  Nan

attributing athleticism (solely) to mtDNA is a stretch. mtDNA generate around 91, 92 % of all ATP in mammals making it responsible for life and productivity -- occasionally referred to as 'vigor.' ATP, while undoubtedly important, has nothing to do with the formation of the physiology considered 'athletic', which is determined by DNA, such as the ACTN3 gene variants (R,P) expression impacting the fast/slow twitch of skeletal muscles.

My apology to the thread starter, not intending to hijack this thread.  But this is still about the dam line in breeding. Thanks bebo, I am actually referring to performance in terms of power, speed, and endurance.  I am sure you can very well explain some things that we,ve been doing hands on, but can not explain the science behind it.  

This is how we breed some of our strain of game chickens......

1.  We start with two pairs of full siblings.  One pair (male and female) of oriental fowl which are very muscular and powerful but are slow fighting and single stroking, and a pair also male and female of american breed fowl which are very fast fighting, multiple stroking fighters.

2.  when we mate (mating A) the male speed type american fowl to the power oriental female, the results are mediocre offsprings. But mating the (mating B) power type oriental fowl to the speed type american fowl, the results are above average offsprings.  Theoritically, all offsprings from both matings have the same nuclear DNA, but diffrent mitochondrial DNA.  They also differ in body conformation, in this case offsprngs from mating A are a bit muscular than mating B.  Both have heterosis (hybrid vigor) expressed.

3.  In next generation, we bred another american speed type male to the female offsprings from matings A and B.  We use a single (same) male in both matings.  The result are more uniform looking offsprings but the ones carrying the mtDNA of original mating B are faster than the ones  with mtDNA from mating A.

4.  We do this several generations more, another speed type male to females of lines A, and B.  The offsprings are all uniform physically, but still the line B are more faster, multiple stroking fighter, and have more endurance compared to line A.  Both lines are pretty the same in power.

Having the similar nuclear DNA, I assume that the have the same fast and slow twitch muscle more or less, only their mtDNA differs.  They are raised in the same farm environment, are all healthy, same feeds, same caretaker, and are running all together in the same range while growing.