Researching Her Pedigree..need help! - Page 1

I'm doing some more pedigree research on my girl's pedigree and I was wondering if there are any dogs in the pedigree that have been proven to have thrown any known health issues. Looking for BOTH the good AND the bad with this pedigree. I know the lack of titles close up to the dog is a factor for some people. BUT, anything at all anyone knows about some of these dogs would be helpful. Thanks.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1982157-djanga-von-schwarz-hirten

Your best bet would be to contact the breeder who bred the dogs to produce your female. First hand information is always the best. You can also contact the breeder who owns/owned the grandparents (or at the ver least the females) who looks to be http://www.schonestadt.com/

I doubt von Schone Stadt will be pleased to see what's been done with the pups they produced out of the titled, hip-certified imported dogs that make up their kennel, vtgsd.  Despite the information that appears in the pedigree for kiesgsd's female regarding the hip status of the parents, Bengimen von Schone Stadt and Xena von Schone Stadt, NEITHER dog is listed as having had any hip rating awarded in the OFA database, nor is there any evidence of DM testing having been done on them, either. Likewise, the OP's bitch is shown as DM Clear on her pedigree here, but there is no record of that in OFA's database, nor does it appear that she's had her hips and elbows certified as clear. This bitch's Dec. 25, 2014 litter is sired by a male who also does not appear in the OFA database as having a hip rating or DM testing, and it appears that the OP is already planning this bitch's next litter as well, as she's already entered a 'B' litter pedigree. 

kiesgsd, if you're trying to establish yourself as an ethical, conscientious breeder and steward of the breed, you seem to be going about it backwards--it's one thing to breed untitled dogs, but quite another to do so with dogs that are without the basic health clearances. Of course, there's money to be made by doing so, and if that's what matters most, then there's no point in me wasting any more breath or thought on the matter.  Is the reason you're interested in showing your bitch now, after she's already had her first litter, because you believe doing so will increase the amount you can get for her puppies? 

http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1441446#animalThis is her sire's OFA page. So yes, that is correct on her pedigree. Also, her sire and dam were DM tested but there results were not listed on the OFA database because it was through a different company. Also, her dam did indeed have her hips xrayed and prelim evaluated and they did rate as good. I saw my own proof of all of that when I got her. I did my due diligence. Now with that being said, she's DM clear by parentage but I don't trust the DM test we have available to us right now. It's already proven to be full of horse shit because the gene they are testing for isn't even the same gene responsible for DM linked with German Shepherds. The DM that GSD's get is linked to the autoimmune system. So, why would I want to waste money on false security for my puppy buyers? Yes I fully disclose to them that she is clear by parentage but that doesn't really mean anything when it's not the correct gene the test should be testing for. 

As far as me wanting to show my female now, I have always been interested in showing her. But, with life happening and several personal circumstances that have arose I haven't gotten a chance to get her in the ring yet. I wouldn't charge any more for her puppies if she got a GRCH title and SV rating of SG as I charged for her first litter. Now if there is something else you'd like to grill me about as a breeder, message me. I don't appreciate you getting this topic off track. 

Oh and edited to add, I have already spoken with Schone Stadt and have gotten information for the first few generations of my girl's pedigree. They have known about my girl's breeder breeding his untitled dogs. And I'm pretty sure not every dog in this pedigree is titled that came from Schone Stadt. Ema and Eron I know weren't titled. 

that's ok kie. a lot of people have time to breed, whelp, raise a litter and sell puppies, but never seem to find the time to accomplish/certify anything with their GSD.

We did get her CGC when she was 9 months old and we were able to get her hips prelimmed we just had a lot of things happen. But, now that things are much much calmer we are going to get more stuff done with her. Not everything always goes as planned. 

    Exactly my thoughts, ILMD...

but as long as there are no breeding rules for German Shepherd dogs in the US, nothing will change. And there will never be any rules, because ( most of the ) people are not willing to train/health test their dogs. It´s easier to sell than to train - and it´s easier to believe than to know. And an "import" or a "dog out of proven stock" has to be breedworthy, because the owner/breeder paid for the puppy and its "pedigree".

Kies, it´s your own choice - but right now I don´t believe in your dogs - and I don´t believe in your "second generation" at all.

Do me a personal favour and proof me wrong - train and title your dogs, health test them, and you will get my approval.
I guess you own German Shepherd dogs, because you like this kind of dogs - try to obtain the working abilities and the working traits for your next generation, don´t ware them down like a lot of other people.

Kies, if this day and age it is very difficult to be a good breeder without an excellent mentor. I hope you have access to a good mentor that can help you with all the misconceptions and dogma that accompany the breed today. Any decent breeder should have experience in training, knowledge of genetics of breed, and basic health checks. A mentor and training experience should be in place before anyone attempts breeding in first place. The mentor can help with health checks necessary, and the training experience helps with understanding the dimensions of breed between the ears. Good luck!

kiesgsd, it would be helpful if you put the name of your bitch's sire as it is published on his OFA hip certificate, or at least put his OFA number, then, because there's a big difference between BENGIMEN SCHONE STADT and BENGIMAN VON SCHONE STADT when it comes to verifying health certifications--or researching pedigrees, for that matter.

As for preliminary ratings, that's all they are--preliminary. They are NOT a valid certification of sound hip conformation, and they never will be. If you're satisfied with that, and your buyers are satisfied with that, good for all of you. Regarding the explanation as to why there is no evidence of DM testing on Djanga's sire or dam, "...her sire and dam were DM tested but there results were not listed on the OFA database because it was through a different company...", --as long as the testing was done by an approved lab, of which there are five in the US, the owner just has to submit a copy of the test results to OFA, along with the application for listing the results and the $15 fee, and it gets included in the database just as it does when the test is done through the OFA/University of Missouri's lab. Regardless of whether you have any faith in the test or not, however, OFA differentiates between dogs with a DM certification based on that animal having had the DNA testing done directly, and DM certification based on parentage--the latter gets the notation, 'CBP', and only first generation offsrping will be certified as CBP; the offspring of dogs which are CBP must be tested themselves to receive a DM certification, so CBP isn't just passed along.

Beyond this, I don't have any other questions about your program--the very fact that you've changed your kennel name at least once basically answers anything else I might be wondering about.