How do you train a snappy dumbell release? - Page 1

 My 21 month old has a very nice hold, but when I take hold of the dumbbell and give him the release command, instead of snapping his head back smartly, tries to push the dumbbell out of his mouth with his tongue - that makes it look like a slow, chewy, half-hearted release. 

How can I teach him to release quickly and cleanly? 

My other dog would do a beautiful  snappy release naturally and automatically - it wasn't something I had to teach. Not sure why my young male is so slow with this. There are absolutely no issues with getting him to release a toy, a tug, or a sleeve. So it is not an issue of him not understand the "out" or the "give" command, but somehow a problem with understanding the head back movement. 

Motivational or forced retrieve training?

 Motivational - no reason to go forced with him, he loves to retrieve. 

If you are using ball then hide the ball inside your jacket in front call him to you when sits infront touch the sides of the bumbell but never take it of him that way insted with one hand under his mouth holding point and small fingers higher touch the dumbell lightly and with other hand pet him on his nose and telling him to hold ( you can mix match this) and then tell to out also you can grab the leash and walk him this way he will have calm and easy release plus he will never know when you are going to out him also when he outs never pull back the dumbell wait for him to release and pull back his head . I usually out my dog on the side with one hand while we are walking .I walk my dog with the dumbell to the point that she forgets she has it .

Thank you, his hold is fine. I'm not sure if you understood my post? He outs fine, and I do as you say, I put my hands on each side of the dumbbell he will hold quietly until I say "give", I do not move the position of my hands. But instead of opening his mouth and moving his head back to release the dumbbell, he tries to push the dumbbell out of his mouth with his tongue. 

Any tips on getting him to open his mouth and snap his head back instead? 

 

There is NO requirement for the dog to "snap his head back". Work only on outing, and out with a ball/tug with a quick reward coming for the dog to get it or a second one back. Then switch again to the dumbell and use a ball as the reward for outing. The most important thing is a quick retrieve without hesitation and that the dogs sits calmly with the dumbell. It may be that trying to work on a quick out becomes counterproductive as well. So be careful not to over do it and count your blessings that the dog will retrieve. The out should be taught separately and long before reaching this stage.

As you most likely know, the picture the judge is looking for when it comes to the dumbells is a good, hard, strong grip, with no chewing.  If your dog is doing this, then you can't, and really shouldn't even try asking for any more, because it's already perfect and you could easily screw it up trying to get this imaginery cherry of a snappy head back thing that isn't required, isn't necessary and will not result in any more points.  And a judge wouldn't think the dog looked like it was chewing because nothing happens according to you, until you put your hands on the bells to out the thing, and the dog outs it, no problem? the judge is looking for the dog that chews on the way back with the dumbbells and the dog that chew or rolls the dumbbell while sitting in front of the handler before the release command is given.    If you are that concerned, have someone video your dog from the side when he releases the dumbbell, have knowledgable people look at it, and let them tell you it's fine.   What more do you think you will get with some head snapping thing, other than people on the sidelines admiring it?  That was your old dog, this is your new dog.  Train the dog you are so lucky to have now, don't try to turn him into your old dog.  Leave it! 

In the meantime, since his holding the dumbell is damn near perfect,  how is everything else?   Is he really fast and straight  out and back, does he grab the dumbbell on the way out, NOT after he turns, does he sit straight and close holding the dumbbell up?  Those are the things that can be worked on, you are lucky, you have a dog who genetically holds the dumbell hard without chewing, many would give their eye teeth for this.

 Nice!  Some good helpful info. Thanks for that. Some interesting crazy ranting? Why even bother to answer if half the post is unfounded accusations and assumptions? It was fun to read at any rate. 

I got some good pointers at club today, so there are a few things we will be working on.  I'm new here on the board, and was hoping that I could tap into the vast collective knowledge and experience of the members to give me a few things to think about. I wonder how people came to the conclusion that I am not happy with my dog's performance? I'm very happy with him, slowly working at getting our final act together,  just trying to clean up a few details here and there. Next time I'll ask general questions and not make it about me. 

 I didn't know that there was no requirement about snapping the head back. We have had long-time, top level trainers/judges come and work with us (we as a club are short on experience), and both have indicated that when the dog releases, he needs to move their head back - because if they just open their mouth and we pull the dumbbell out, then WE are taking the dumbbell out of their mouth. Is the snapping the head back just a fad or a preference for flashier obedience? Wouldn't we be marked down if the judge expects the clean release but does not see it? 

 Thanks for the videos - I really liked that first dog - what a pleasure to watch! And yes, that is what I mean by a head-snap back. It doesn't have to be AS snappy as what these dogs will do, but in both cases, the handler keeps his hands in the same position, and the dog moves his head back to release. 

I tried to find some videos of dogs doing what my dog is doing - googled - " Schutzhund retrieves" + training, but only could watch a few and had to stop as I was afraid my brain would bleed if I had to look through another slow, sloppy, chewy half-hearted retrieve. In all the (training) videos I saw, the handler would snatch the dumbbell out of the dogs mouth (before they dropped it, I guess).

Thanks for trying to help out - it is a weird one -