Ahron Granit Rose - Page 1

I took this from "Studying Pedigrees"

Ahron Granit Rose - big males with nice heads, slow maturing, huge grips, willing dogs, fun to train, but also HD and allergies/other health problems

Not just HD but also ED.

We have two litters with a 3-4 linebreeding on Ahron.

Absolutely fantastic dogs, no nerve issues, super social, fantastic temperament, no dog aggression whatsoever. The male is big, with a huge head on his shoulders.

Drive, Drive, more drive, lots fight and defense, two of the females are not as easy to regulate as the male, tons of flash, fun to train, very handler oriented but not handler soft. The male is super balanced, and all have an off switch. No allergies or other health problems yet, but we've got one female with ED and I talked to another breeder who bred with Ahron, they've got ED as well. It is something he can throw.

better look at the dogs closer on your pedigrees than Aron

Who are you quoting above? Are they unbiased? Was it his owner or a breeder who used him once or twice or someone who maybe never used him and "heard" these things? 

One female out of 2 linebred litters has ED? And one female you know who belongs to someone else has an elbow issue? What kind of ED? ED is quite a catch all. Are we talking bilateral FCP, UAP, etc. or are we talking about grade 1 DJD?  

All these dogs have mothers, too. How is someone so sure it's coming from Ahron directly? And where did Ahron get it? 

It is definitely coming through Ahron. We are talking UAP.

Neither of the bloodline had ED issues until Ahron was introduced. There was also talk about problems with the meter hurdle, that a lot of progeny had issues taking the meter hurdle as well as back issues. It's not just one person I talked to.

That being said, the litters we are talking about, none of these dogs are alive. It was one litter from 1999 that had major sceletal Health issues.


ps: one person I talked to is a well respected German breeder that was straight forward about the issues he's had within his own bloodline since he introduced Ahron. And he didn't just give me the negatives, he gave me all, positives and negatives. And it's no secret that Ahron can bring health issues.

"It's definitely coming through Ahron" doesn't answer WHO wrote that and were they unbiased? What sampling was used to gauge it and arrive at Ahron being the problem? Elbows weren't routinely X-rayed back then. To say neither line had any ED until Ahron is not fair or proveable. For all anyone knows, there may have been lots of problems, but only a few were bad enough that they were investigated. If a dog didn't limp, it was presumed not to have ED. Now we know better. 

 I find pedigree analysis fascinating, but it has to be credible and to gauge credibility, one must know where it's coming from and what information was used to deduce the conclusion. One litter in 1999 rumored to have had "major skeletal issues" is not enough info for me. I want to know more. What major skeletal issues? Whose litter? What was the full pedigree? Were they raised by different people or did the breeder keep several? Which ones had the problems? And so on...

This is how rumors get started and people avoid dogs for silly reasons. These things are important to know. But you have to KNOW, not guess. I'm not saying it's NOT Ahron. He's not one I have personal opinions toward. 

This may be common knowledge for all I know; I don't breed on Ahron so I haven't researched him much. I'd say this regardless of who the dog was. 

PPS: I would take the risk again. The positives most certainly outweigh the negatives about this breeding. The dogs we've got are absolutely phenomenal. However, I did want to share what else we've got. Just so it's out there and people know what they can get.

It's devastating because she's a very nice female and it's even more devastating when it's one of your own dogs and it shows up in your own litter.

Jenni, they were unbiased. Absolutely unbiased. I know where it's coming from because there is a pattern. The breeder who told me this, has absolutely no reason to lie. I don't care if anyone believes it or not. I would take the risk again. What this breeding produced is absolutely phenomenal and it was worth taking the risk. 

However, the fact remains, Ahron can and will produce health issues eventually. The above quote, I took from a topic (studying pedigrees) from this forum, written LJollyman. I am simply confirming what she said. Ahron will bring health issues and not just HD but also UAP, known back issues and issues taking hurdles due to that.

This is coming from the Maineiche Kennels. As well as a well known  handler that has no reason to lie to me, my own father and a few other people.

And again, these are not rumors. Ahron is known to produce health problems but from what I know, the positives outweighed the negatives, which I can also see in my own two litters. Like i said, I'd do this breeding again, in a heartbeat. I just wanted to share what I found out so far.

I didn't say these were rumors. I just asked for some basis with which to judge fairly. 

I haven't know of a big producer ever who didn't produce any problems. If one exists, I'd love to hear about him. 

I see some nice working dogs with Ahron Granit Rose in their ped, it would be a shame in case he did pass on some major health issues.Not sure I would try to shy away from him in a ped. without more solid  facts,I really hate to throw baby out with bath water if he produced working temperament that was to die for.

BE, you do know that Nala's got a littermate with fast normal elbows, correct? And that her mother Kora has at least several half-siblings on her sire's side with NZ elbows, and that's just what I could see without having access to the SV database...I suspect that may be what duke1965 meant when he suggested you look closer than Ahron in the pedigree.

Given that it's only been fairly recently that having elbows certified, or even looked at, before a dog is used for breeding has even been a factor, I think we have to presume that ALL GSDs are carrying the genetics for the collective of elbow conditions that we refer to as Elbow Dysplasia, and therefore I think it's too early to saw with any conviction that a particular dog is bringing in ED in a pairing. Is it worth noting that you had two litters from the same pairing, that were 3-4 on Ahron, and out of that small sample size [2 live pups/litter] one of them has ED? Absolutely! What will be more telling, however, is if you can use each parent with mates that carry no Ahron at all, and see how the results of those litters compare. IMO, it will be a long time before we'll be at a point in the breed where we can point to any particular dog or litter with a warning that they carry a strong risk of producing ED if linebred upon--it's been less than ten years since the SV began requiring elbow certification, after all, not to mention the numerous countries where it's not required at all [such as the US].

Oh, and FWIW, I don't disregard what you'd heard about Ahron progeny and issues with the metre jump, but WRT elbow issues, those typically are reflected moreso with the A-frame than the jump, as the former is much more taxing to the elbows in both the ascent and the descent. Dogs that have difficulty with the jump tend to make me look more toward the hips, stifles and spine, not the Ielbows elbows.

I am disappointed for you, to hear that the lovely sable land-shark girl of yours came up bad on elbows, none the less...I know she was meant to be the keystone female, building off of Yukon as your foundation, for the establishment of your own line here as an offshoot of your the line your parents maintain in Germany. Hopefully her younger sister will be clear all the way 'round, and you will still have a Yukon daughter for a keystone. [crosses fingers]