Need pedigree input - Page 1

I am being offered a replacement puppy with this pedigree http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=2291615&mother=2291610  

The puppy I have that is being replaced by his breeder is from this breeding http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=2078198&mother=1351495

 

I was seeking a male that I can compete in obedience with, show in some conformation shows (not AKC) and title to a BH, possibly entertain the idea of starting in Sch down the road, but that was never the ultimate goal. He would have eventually become a stud dog after passing x-rays. The puppy I bought has only 1 testicle so obviously most of what I want to do with him can't happen. The breeder is offering a replacement puppy (only) and it's a female from the 1st pedigree above. I did show the male puppy and if hadn't been for the missing testicle he would have done very well- the judges all loved his movement and conformation. Is the female's pedigree comparable at all to the male's in terms of what I want to do? 

 

Michelle

In my opinion, both pedigrees are based on working ability first and foremost. I do not see either one as being bred for conformation. Thats not to say either are not able to show in conformation.  If your main goal was to show, perhaps a litter bred based with conformation as its main goal would have suited you better.

The first thing I noticed was the lack of Hip and elbow certification or at the very least, xrays had been done. Perhaps they were done and are not listed. But only going by what is there, or the lack of it, would be a concern for me.

Either pedigree appears to be a prospective working pedigree. Without actually seeing and able to put hand on the puppy, it will be very hard to give an opinion if a puppy from either pedigree is more showable or just as showable as the other.

Good luck and I hope other opinions may help you in making a decision.

As Hutchins said - being of Working pedigree does not rule out Showing

in conformation;  but the monorchidism obviously does !  Unless you

live somewhere where it is permissable to show castrated dogs ? 

So you are unlikely to be able to use him at stud even if he passes all

health requirements with flying colours.   Mind you, if you take on

the bitch pup, she's not going to be a stud dog for you, either - LOL.

 

You could still do Obedience competition with this boy, yes  ?

Even IPO, if you don't have to go the full SV-requirements route (of BH

AD & Survey) - you could check with your local Club ?

 

Just how far down the road are you to being / becoming a Breeder

of GSDs ?  If this is the first GSD you have owned, for example, maybe

it is too early to think in terms of producing more of them.

 

What about this replacement deal - The breeder only wants you to take

the female, rather than give you a refund of all or part of the price ?  Is

giving the dog pup back to the breeder a part of the agreement ?  Michelle,

he is how many months old now, if you showed him already ?  Can you part

with him now ?

All issues to chew over before you decide what to do.  Good luck.

 

How old is your male now? Those look like some pretty good pedigrees, except as Hutchins said, no h/e ratings. Both breedings have dogs in them that could produce some serious dogs. Hope you're experienced. Where are these dogs coming from?

My male puppy is 15 weeks old with no sign of the 2nd testicle. I had my repro vet palpate him and she couldn't feel it at all. Not my first GSD by any means, got my first GSD about 15 years ago. I breed Aussies currently and have 2 female GSDs. I show in IABCA and will show in UKC as well - the working line dogs stand a chance there whereas in AKC they don't. My male puppy has OFA'd sire/dam, but this female puppy does not. I did show the male in a puppy class and he wowed the judges that saw and felt him, it was unfortunate about the missing testicle to say the least. The male puppy has to be returned to the breeder in exchange for the female. The male puppies he offered me in exchange are not what I am looking for. He will not do a refund of any kind, no exceptions - except that he did admit fault in not having this puppy vet checked and he only "thought" he felt 2 testicles, but may have been confused. He did apologize, but that's all. I took him at his word that this puppy would be suitable for what I wanted and the contract only covered failing hips/elbows. He would repeat the breeding, but obviously that pairing produced testicle issues once so who's to say it won't again. I don't care to take that chance. We've all become attached to the male puppy so it will be hard to return him, but I just don't have time to devote to him and another puppy. I didn't buy him looking for just a pet. This breeder is just north of Chicago, I don't wish to ID him at this time because I am still waiting on the female puppy and don't want to cause more issues between me and this breeder than there already are. Trying to make sure I don't get screwed over more than I have already! So hard to put much trust in people these days. 

 

Michelle 

Not for nothing, but while I do find your male pup's sire in the OFA database--for hips only--his dam is not found there.

She was prelim only - not certified and he didn't have it published. The female puppy's sire/dam haven't been prelim'd or certified yet. 

Since  you aren't a stranger to the breed, I guess I don't need to tell you that taking a GSD puppy from parents without hip and elbow xrays is very risky. 

Good luck with your new pup.

I think you are going directly from the frying pan into the fire.  Although I do not know these dogs in the new background;  hips/elbows and health clearances prior to breeding are a must and anything else without these clearances is backyard breeding.  Sorry, would also be nice to see eye clearances on all of these dogs both pedigrees, both puppies.  Otherwise, shut your eyes and pick one as your chances of getting something without health issues are very slim.  Good luck. 

 

If you breed Aussies; you know what I am talking about, hopefully.  Nan

Well he won't refund, only will replace so I'm between a rock and a hard place here. I can't just walk away with nothing, he wasn't a cheap puppy. So it's either take this female or one of her unsold male littermates (so same deal genetically) or wait for him to repeat a breeding that produced a missing testicle once and pray that it doesn't happen again. I can take this girl and sell her at a lower cost to at least get some of my money back (better than nothing at this point). He was tricky with his kennel name - the last name is the same as a very good kennel, he just uses Von instead of Vom so when I searched the kennel name online I didn't come up with anything negative about his program. When I searched the correct kennel name under one of the other breeds he has I found issues that other people have had with him. Of course that was after the fact. 

 

Michelle