American lines - Page 2

 I also think he is a very nice male..very good type, bones, nice structure, short couple, looks like he has a good shoulder (altough the upper arms seems a little bit longer than the scapula). I would like to see him gaiting. very nice rear angulation (for a german type) and nice croup.
The only thing I don't like is those east-west feets..

He is very nice and it's almost a miracle he's not roach back..if you look at the pedigree..aaaaghhh..roach..roach..roach..

But you are Right...almost perfect...I would be very afraid tobreed this dog thought with what I see behind him...not so pretty!!

July, a couple of things I agree with you, a couple not.

His shoulder is as perfect as I have ever seen on a GSD, and I have seen him in the flesh. It is not possible for a GSD to have a "too long" an upper arm and I do disagree with your evaluation as regards the ratio of upper arm/scapula.
However, this is just my assessment versus yours and not worth splitting hairs over.

Your comments on pedigree I cannot dispute, but in the end it is the individual dog who decides this. If he produces what he is, then his pedigree means nothing. If he can't do this, then he will eventually end up in the also rans.

Regardless, to this point, all reports on him are excellent. Show placings, bite work, everything is stellar. Time will tell.

Best,
Rik

I think I am able to recognize a proper shoulder, I feel my young female has proper shoulder. but what I see and like is not always what other people see and like.  to each his own. Below is Ezra, around 6 months old being handled by Ork's owner. I would like a little more rear angulation, but am quite happy with her.  She's now a year old and I need new pics, but will have to wait being my camera died on me.




I love all gsd, and like to see beauty in all lines, whether it is the utility of the working lines with their dark pigment or the richness of the wg color, and the grace I see with some am. showlines.   I still do not see the weak backs, as I have been around the lines and close relatives to the dogs pictured.  all hold a firm, level back at rest and in movement.  I feel a weak back is one who sways, sags, and does not remain level during movement. 
I am not saying the 2 bitches pictured above are perfect,  but I do like the pigment and structure compared to dogs that were bred 10-15 years ago such as the Leiter dogs ect.  as far as the males, I do see alot of improvement that has been made compared to the past. 

the male you picture does paint a pretty picture, though I am not a fan of his sire, he is a nice male, and it is nice to see a dog with a more natural looking back and rear.  I do not care for the roach or the rear legs that look 1/2 the size of the front that you can see on many dogs posted on this boards forsale section.

 LOL...I just read what I said!!
I wanted to say a shorter upper arm compare to the scapula..sorry my mistake..I wanted to add I love his nice strong neck and his short hocks (something we have to improve in the Am GSD who has way too long hocks!)
I have not had the chance to see this dog in person and you know as I do that sometimes even thought the ratio upper arm/scapula is not perfect..what is important is the balance between rear and front..if you have too much front for the rear..or the contrary..the gait will be much more affected than a dog with a less perfect ratio but a good overall balance between both ends..

I would love to agree with you about the dog producing is own type. Sometimes it will be ok for the 1st generation but what about the next ones..Pedigree is not everything but it can give you a pretty good idea of what you can expect in a litter..

In his case (and i'm telling you it is a shame cause he is gorgeous)..parents are less than perfect and siblings pretty looks like their parents...Gee..this dogs looks like he comes from the dairy man LOL!!

But you are right..let's give the dog a chance to prove himself..we will probably see progenies soon..this dogs is just 2 years old and i'm sure he will get a lot of attention in the future..

Best
Julie

july I can not disagree as I have little knowledge of German S/L pedigrees.But if talking about Am. S/L. I always consider Sundance Kid, who although holes in his pedrigree and no siblings who match him, never the less went on to become the most important producer of Am. S/L post Lance.

I have found that the best policy is to consider the dog first. Danny has the genes to become what he is, where ever they come from. The test will be, can he pass those genes on. If so, then he will most certainly become a spectaular dog in the U.S.

Best and I always enjoy a sensible discussion concerning the GSD which is often very hard to engage in here.

Rik

 Yes, you are right on siblings..he was the only one who stood out. It's hard to find an Am. GSD without sundance in it's pedigree.  But they really tried to fix type with his breeding...

He was a 2-2 on  Hawkeye who himself was a 3-2 on Lance..Pretty close breeding so better chance to give what is behind him.

I think he did..for better or for worst!! I kind of liked that dog even thought he was not perfect.  And he gave the Great Nike Clayfiield Andretti a dog that was spectacular..Conan , Rooney, Gunner, Black jack, Nestley Crunch..and many many more who produced the same type..like it or not he really change the Am. GSD..

That's where spectacular sidegait started..and it's still goes on today..oufff..that bring back memories!!

I like Sundance Kid, though he lacked good color. 

Nestle Crunch, an excellent dog, good character, good anatomy, very large,poor color also.

My bitch Am. Ch. Clayfield Trieste comes from Crunch. She also had very good character and very weak color.

Andretti, probably my favorite Am. S;L dog. I see him at his futurity in Birmingham, Al. and many times after that.

Gunner, O.K., but not much breeding behind. Also does not produce much in the long run.

Conan, the absolute most beautiful GSD I have ever seen. I breed my bitch, Am. Ch. Silstra's Drogeda to him. He was an absolute flake. If he gets loose in a crowd, you need a butterfly net to catch him. From this breeding, I get one female puppy, also very beautiful and also a complete flake, so she ends up in a pet home.

I walk up on Conan at the national in Philly. He is owned by a very famous Am. S/L duo. One owner has him on leashe, the other is blocking any one from coming close to him. The dog is literally darting from side to side from fear at being there in a crowd.

Black Jack I remember and like very nuch, Rooney I do not remember.

Best,
Rik

I really like this dog, back in the early "80's" I had his daughter, then years later I found a relative of his, I was thrilled cause his daughter was very nice, but I had to part with her cause the x beat her, she got out of the bad marriage years before I did!

Anyway, years later when things were going alot better for me, I purchased a puppy from the same lady I had given up my girl to, so in essence, I got one of my girls relatives, then I mixed that with the East German lines, so Theo has him in the pedigree five generations back, he was either the first or there weren't too many American dogs earning a UDTX FH title at that time Nice looking too!

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/517869.html 

Congrats mm. Does New Skete still breed. I know they put very serious effort into breeding sound dogs. (I've been absent from GSD for several years)

Rik

I don't breed, nor do I want to, but I am just curious what Rik and July don't like about the pedigree of Danny.  I've gotten kind of addicted to studying pedigrees!  

Thanks!