Ethical or not German Shepherd Breeder??? - Page 1

generally any guarantee given by a breeder is null and void if the dog is resold.  guarantee does not transfer to a third party.

you paid for the dog,  you could have easily checked if he had his testicles or not before purchasing him.

and the dog can live a normal life,  though he is at higher risk for some cancers if his retained testicles are not removed,  which is a more invasive surgery than a normal nueter.

what is it you want from this person?  you want them to replace a dog you paid $100 for from someone else? 

I have to agree with Uber. You have been had because you did not know what you were doing. Sad but now you have experience.

Rik

If the warranty was transfered accordingly, your name is on it.. the  breeder should replace the pup.
I certainly would if I new that 2 other dogs have the same problem.. that is very much a genetic fault and it should be resolver and addressed by the breeder.
That puppy is not in excellent healt condition and me as a  breeder... well my good name, and my integrity is in stake. I will do all I can to fix it.

Yes I learned my lesson and didn't know what I was doing, neither did the first owner, but I paid $1000 for the dog and the breeder told me the guarantee would transfer, the extra $100 was going to the breeder to transfer ownership, register  AKC and CKC and give me breeding rights if I OFA after 2 years. So lets say I had a valid contract or I was the original owner would it be correct  for me to expect a replacement. Also is it standard practice to breed a dog that has a history of this condition,thanks

Dog should not be bred, & using lines that are producing multiple pups with the same problem should be a red flag to any breeder that at the least that pairing should not be repeated. If you were wanting to breed the dog, you would have lost something, & might choose to seek a replacement; but as you stated you are inexperienced, so probably you shouldn't yet be thinking of breeding dogs until you have more experience. Your dog can be perfectly happy as he is, or you could choose to neuter him, which would prevent him from passing on that defect, & which would be the responcible thing for you to do. It is a more invasive, & more expensive procedure, i don't think it would be unreasonable for you to ask the breeder to help out a little toward the more expensive neuter. I personally would not have sold the pup at all, but adopted him out as a pet, with a neuter contract. But that's me, I care about the dogs & the breed, & maybe that's why I'm broke all the time, LOL! You have not stated what your intentions are for this pup, & whether or not you are happy with him otherwise. Basically, while it sucks to have been 'taken', realistically, the dog can still do anything you want him to do besides sire puppies. But, just as a precaution, & knowing that this breeder is 'OK' with passing along a pup with a defect, I would have the hips prelimed as soon as the pup is old enough, & make sure that the vet does a very thorough exam, checking for heart murmers, & any other heritable problems. Otherwise, look into that pups eyes & decide if you can forgive him for unwittingly being the pawn in a humans game, & if you decide to keep him, love him. He doesn't get that he's different. And you could have a great deal of fun at his expense, for which he will readily forgive you, like naming him 'Arlo'(even tho' they're not), or saying, "Aw, nuts" whenever he rolls over......poor dog, he'll just think you're having fun with him. If you can't remedy the situation, try to keep a sense of humor about it....I just found out recently that the male I had intended to have as my 'stud dog' has bad hips. It hurts, it sucks, but what can you do? I'm not asking his breeder for any money back, although I paid a lot for him, because I know this breeder feels as badly about this as I do, & I know there was no intention to breed a dog with bad hips, it just happened. I'm having him neutered, & it's too bad, it's killing me to do it, because he's just perfect in every other way, but ...I wouldn't want to take a replacement pup from the same breeding pair, anyway, for fear my dog would be carrying the same defect, even if it doesn't manifest in that particular pup. Sorry for being long winded, & I hope this helps. jackie harris

Yes kalibeck it's a shame this animal is unwittingly a pawn in this human game. A beautiful animal, that will be neutered and live a good life, I'll see to that. You're also right in saying that I'm not experienced at breeding and shouldn't do it. I had planned to breed him once with a family that has a female from a well know kennel but they are  no more experienced than I am. I've been working in an industry for 45 years where health and safety is involved and I certainly wouldn't want my grandchildren"s safety put in beginners  hands. It was arrogant on my part to think I could pick the right dog and then breed him.Better to get one from an expert.

That's the problem, I thought I was picking an expert. Why don't you have a certifying association, AKC and CKC are near useless for flagging individuals that breed dogs with genetic problems. Not all breeders are like GDSpack and Kalibeck that would neuter a beautiful dog with a genetic defect. Based on the emails and horror stories I've gotten so far unethical breeding is an epidemic. Is there a reason you ethical breeders don't set up a certifying association and kick out anyone that doesn't meet your standards, a small fee would handle it. When I get my car fixed, buy a house, place a bet in Las Vegas, buy organic grass fed cheese,have a kidney removed or even receive instructions at my health club I can check to see if they are certified and if they have damaged someone else. Is this just a completely buyer beware business or does an organization exist to do this and I'm to stupid to find it, or do I just have to spend hours at chat rooms and dog shows and then still it's a roll of the dice. I know that breeding is dificult, but gross infringements of basic science and business practices are rampant.Thanks for all your input.Dave

Deor,
 This is such a touchy topic. Even the best preeder can not please everybody. The thing in purchasing a dog (any dog) for some sort of sport is RESEARCH.
If I told you that I waited for my male patiently for about 3 months would you believe me?? The reseach took me about 8 months.  And I know the bloodlines!!! I have seen some of the Czech dogs with my own eyes and still I waited and watched and followed results from competitions, asked some of my friends in Czech and Slovakia how the dogs are!!
I am kinda nuts when it comes to my lines, my dogs and my believe in what I expect from my dogs.
I have extremely high expectations from the people who buy my dogs as from my dogs. My pupies are sold strictly in a refferal mode. I have seen.. I encourage people to come and interact with the pups. To even come and see my dog work..lets have fun. Tell you the truth I highly recommend people to come and actually see if they do wan to take a chance with my pups. the main stud I have is radher civil. and he sure reproduces himself.
I personaly replaced one pup this year only (not even my breeding). I imported it and I am responcible for the outcome if needed. I want my dogs to be healty and sound.
I have never purchased a dog form USA.. all the dogs I personaly bought were imports. (only my female was born here out of two imports that I brought with me) If I want a new blood I go and find puppy in SVK or CZ.
I know were to go, what to look for and what to do and still it is a Crap Scoot. None of the breeders has nay guarantee(baybe couple of them do). I can recomend only handfull breders here in the USA.. cause I deald with them. I do not talk badl about ay breeders I just will not recomment them as an option.
Good luck with the pup. I hope that your next experience is going to be pleasant

 Deor wrote
 
"I had planned to breed him once with a family that has a female from a well know kennel but they are no more experienced than I am."

I would question the knowledge of someone who, despite being "experienced", plans a future breeding around a pet pup belonging to a novice who doesn't sound as if he has enough knowledge to be offering a dog at stud..

Margaret N-J 

Kaffirdog .   Knowledge is gained by experience and being lucky in finding an ethical breeder to help novices.  You said about the novice who doesn't sound as if he has enough knowledge to be offering a dog at stud , so you Kaffirdog as an experienced breeder I assume ?  must feel that it is ethical to breed working puppies whose Sire and Dam EACH have U.K. BVA elbow scores of  2  as YOU have recently done ! ,  Is this not the pot calling the kettle black when the maximum score of elbows in U.K. is 3. and the U.K. kennel Club advise to only breed with dogs that have the scores of   0 or 1.  !!!!!!!!!!!!.