Working Lines owners/breeders question - Page 1

When you examine a pedigree how important is it to follow the maternal lines through the generations?  There is much emphasis on the sire for many reasons - namely I would assume due the fact that males can produce far more offspring over the course of their lives, however rare for a breeder to sell a fantastic bitch. 
Aside from working titles and health, what else might you look for when looking at the maternal lines?

I have also wondered about this.

From a breeding perspective, are certain traits such as prey drive or aggression more predictably passed with either the male or female line?

 

this is just my opinion, though i have heard others say the same:  the sire of the dam is in a highly inheritable position  when it comes to character 

of the pups.  

all the best males seem to come from strong dam lines & strong dams come from good sires.  there is no doubt that good dams on both bottom and top 

of the pedigree are essential, but those dams need to be paired with males who work well with their breeding.  i am not in favor of the current fashion of 

breeding focused on sires, points & titles.  breeding needs to be centered around dam lines & bring in what is needed.

pjp

The highly titled sires are vastly overated and you seldom see an average bitch mated to a BSP or BSZS winner that produces better than she is.  Titles in general don't mean much as there have been plenty of male champions who were not great dogs and even more that made just average pups despite their titles or rankings.  Just like human, the ability to run fast or jump high doesn't make you a good all around human.  Start with a great bitch that is what you want in a female and add a male that has the appearance and personality you like in a male .. then things go better.  If both the female and male are representative of their families and bloodlines even better as the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.  Even with 2-3 or 3-3 inbreeding most of the pups will look like mom or dad  .. throwbacks to Fero, Grim, or Norbo are few and far between when they are 5-5.  It's hard to make much difference in a single generation and picking one puppy from a litter of 8 as the best at 8 weeks is a crap shoot at best.  Better to raise entire litters and see how they develop and which pups grow up to be the best dogs .. lots of surprises there but few have the facilities or determination to raise entire litters to 1 year or older.  Most of my dogs are Czech or Czech + German.

I personally don't understand how some ignore the mother line. As if the mother is just an incubator and provides no input. The mother is the pups first teacher. Now the fathers have a larger impact on the breed because they can produce scores of dogs. Females usually max out at 35 pups. As someone has said pups are a crap shoot. The best way to choose a pup is to see the temperments of the sire and dam. The working ability of the sire and dam in training (not show video). Then I look at pedigree and inzucht (line breeding). Once again as someone said 5-5 linebreeding in my opinion is of no substance. 2-3 linebreeding larger impact. But you still have several dogs in  the mix. With linebreeding you don't only get the good you get the bad as well. I was given some advice on a breeding once from someone who KNEW the dogs and KNEW how they produced. I was told don't do this breeding, you will get small dogs and missing teeth. This type of information is invaluable. Breed wardens should be versed in these things. I once sought advise from a breed warden on a breeding. They replied, I do not know these dogs or how they produce, good luck. I was floored. I would have thought a breed warden would have at least said I will get back to you with some information regarding your breeding. I am not familiar with the dogs you mentioned. So, yes the mother line is just as important as the sire in my opinion.

Kyle

Genes are inherited in pairs, one half of each pair coming from each parent. It's a random pairing and no two littermates inherit the exact genome unless they are identical twins, very rare in the dog world.  Every dog alive is one half it's sire, one half it's dam.

Blitzen is 100% correct. I think it's just as valuable (if not more valuable) to have a strong bitch. I've been taught it's 60-40; 60% from mom, 40% from dad. Genetically it's 50-50; but because the mother is the one who raises the pups, they learn her mannerisms, if she's weak nerved, chances are the pups will become weak nerved; if the bitch is strong and fearless, teaches pups. The temperament, nerves, and attitude of the bitch rubs off on the pups. I like to see a strong maternal line. I think people put too much emphasis on the male, and too little on the female. But that's just my opinion. 

In a perfect world a litter of puppies would resemble or be 1/2 of what their Dam is and 1/2 of what their Sire is...So they'd be a perfect Mix of each parent...And in one way they are...Because each puppy does contain 1/2 of their genes from each parent...The problem is that each puppy doesn't receive the same exact gene or genes from the parents...

It's like having a bag of genes from the Dam and a separate bag from the Sire...Each bag gets shaken up and each puppy gets a selection of these...just not always the same exact selection...

As far as Titles and the such in relation to Breeding...Rarely do you have a Top Working Dog become a great breeder...It's two different things entirely...

And when talking about the importance of a good Female in the breeding process it's very simple...Most of the time...Great puppies come out of Great Females...I DO NOT breed to a inferior Female...

 

~Bob~

Like begets like. It's a  no brainer - if you want to produce the best litters you can,  breed only the best to the best (whatever your definition of the best is).