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by Sunsilver on 28 February 2014 - 20:02
Kit-kat: 
Hurray for you!
I had to spay my first breed-quality dog due to a varietly of problems: faded pigment, umbilical hernia (I think she could have been bred safely, and mom and the other pup were hernia free) one mildly dysplastic hip, and a front end that didn't quite pass muster. (No one has ever been able to tell me exactly what's wrong with it. but her feet come so far in towards the centre line that it almost looks like they are crossing over!)
I've since been told by someone with more than 6 decades of experience with GSDs that I have a VERY nice bitch, and I shouldn't have spayed her!
[ouch]
I still think I did the right thing though, and I am sure Jersey Girl will, too.
We all have to start somewhere, and learn from our mistakes, and someone rubbing our noses in it doesn't help!
Hurray for you!
I had to spay my first breed-quality dog due to a varietly of problems: faded pigment, umbilical hernia (I think she could have been bred safely, and mom and the other pup were hernia free) one mildly dysplastic hip, and a front end that didn't quite pass muster. (No one has ever been able to tell me exactly what's wrong with it. but her feet come so far in towards the centre line that it almost looks like they are crossing over!)
I've since been told by someone with more than 6 decades of experience with GSDs that I have a VERY nice bitch, and I shouldn't have spayed her!
[ouch]I still think I did the right thing though, and I am sure Jersey Girl will, too.
We all have to start somewhere, and learn from our mistakes, and someone rubbing our noses in it doesn't help!
by Hundmutter on 28 February 2014 - 21:02
DenWulf, Thanks - you said a lot of what I was thinking.
When, JerseyGirl, you first started posting questions to PDB,
over the course of about three different subjects / threds, you
had a lot of replies from a lot of posters. Many of them struggled
with your way of presenting yourself, the stream-of-conciousness,
repetitive text-style posts with few paragraph breaks was (is) hard
to read and work with, and several people told you that.
That was the first thing you didn't take on board, yet.
Many of us however did not carp about that; we spent quite a lot
of time advising you on : how to pick out the better breeders,
how to research the breed in more detail before you made another
purchase, pointed out to you that there are some conditions and
ailments that no breeder can really guarantee against, the folly
of anyone deciding to buy a puppy in order to breed, and deciding
to breed at all at a stage where you were, as yet, still really uninformed
about GSDs in general, and breeding them in particular. [ Like the world
NEEDS even more GSD puppies bred in a half-assed manner ...]
So if you are 'trying to learn' and this is 'rubbing your nose in' not having
learnt much yet, okay I'm very sorry, but it looked to me as though you
have not got anywhere with the 'homework' you insist you have done.
When, JerseyGirl, you first started posting questions to PDB,
over the course of about three different subjects / threds, you
had a lot of replies from a lot of posters. Many of them struggled
with your way of presenting yourself, the stream-of-conciousness,
repetitive text-style posts with few paragraph breaks was (is) hard
to read and work with, and several people told you that.
That was the first thing you didn't take on board, yet.
Many of us however did not carp about that; we spent quite a lot
of time advising you on : how to pick out the better breeders,
how to research the breed in more detail before you made another
purchase, pointed out to you that there are some conditions and
ailments that no breeder can really guarantee against, the folly
of anyone deciding to buy a puppy in order to breed, and deciding
to breed at all at a stage where you were, as yet, still really uninformed
about GSDs in general, and breeding them in particular. [ Like the world
NEEDS even more GSD puppies bred in a half-assed manner ...]
So if you are 'trying to learn' and this is 'rubbing your nose in' not having
learnt much yet, okay I'm very sorry, but it looked to me as though you
have not got anywhere with the 'homework' you insist you have done.
by jc.carroll on 28 February 2014 - 22:02
*lugs out a soapbox*
I would rather see an eager novice who admits mistakes then spay/neuteres any day. So JerseyGirl's made a mistake in pup selection; so what! Two dogs who won't be bred, and get a good home with someone who cares about them.
Far worse someone buys a dog that doesn't pan out, then they discard it without care as to who gets it, as if the dog isn't even a living creature. Or someone who has quality dogs that are only used for puppy-farming.
What I really can't, when it comes to folk talking about their breeding plans: are the folk who crop up occasionally, lay out a very stupid plan about breeding, then afterwards announce they'll go ahead... then later resurface and complain that there are problems with their pups. Eh, poorly planned breeding yields poor results? I hope those folk are ready for the lack of surprise and empathy they get from others.
Does anyone remember that guy who bought a male-female littermate pair of GSDs then asked about breeding them because he'd had good success doing brother-sister breedings with his meat hogs? I can't remember how that played out, but he was utterly incredulous when the general responses ranged from incredulity to downright outrage. As I recall, the not-so-subtle difference between breeding something destined for the dinner table versus something destined for working with a human was utterly lost on him. To him, and his many years of hog farming, breeding was breeding. The parents were bred very young too, as I recall. I think he was back once, saying no one wanted the resultant puppies or something. Something like that. *shrugs*
Anyhow, everyone's gotta start somewhere. Mistakes will be made; but better they be made without the expense of puppies being brought into the world.
As for breeders? Well, to an eager novice, there are more than a handful of folk out there who know just the right answers to questions to make a sale. Sorting out good breeders from the not-so-good ones is not always the easiest of tasks. A lot of folk calling themselves breeders can say the perfect thing, present a perfect scenario based on selective omission of certain facts. Alas, such breeders only make the rest of the breeding community look bad. It's unfortunate, really. Ultimately, it's the dogs -- the ones who have no say in the matter -- who usually wind up reaping the consequences.
At least a megaE puppy has a caring home with his littermate.
*steps off soapbox; waves, then goes back to mostly lurking*
I would rather see an eager novice who admits mistakes then spay/neuteres any day. So JerseyGirl's made a mistake in pup selection; so what! Two dogs who won't be bred, and get a good home with someone who cares about them.
Far worse someone buys a dog that doesn't pan out, then they discard it without care as to who gets it, as if the dog isn't even a living creature. Or someone who has quality dogs that are only used for puppy-farming.
What I really can't, when it comes to folk talking about their breeding plans: are the folk who crop up occasionally, lay out a very stupid plan about breeding, then afterwards announce they'll go ahead... then later resurface and complain that there are problems with their pups. Eh, poorly planned breeding yields poor results? I hope those folk are ready for the lack of surprise and empathy they get from others.
Does anyone remember that guy who bought a male-female littermate pair of GSDs then asked about breeding them because he'd had good success doing brother-sister breedings with his meat hogs? I can't remember how that played out, but he was utterly incredulous when the general responses ranged from incredulity to downright outrage. As I recall, the not-so-subtle difference between breeding something destined for the dinner table versus something destined for working with a human was utterly lost on him. To him, and his many years of hog farming, breeding was breeding. The parents were bred very young too, as I recall. I think he was back once, saying no one wanted the resultant puppies or something. Something like that. *shrugs*
Anyhow, everyone's gotta start somewhere. Mistakes will be made; but better they be made without the expense of puppies being brought into the world.
As for breeders? Well, to an eager novice, there are more than a handful of folk out there who know just the right answers to questions to make a sale. Sorting out good breeders from the not-so-good ones is not always the easiest of tasks. A lot of folk calling themselves breeders can say the perfect thing, present a perfect scenario based on selective omission of certain facts. Alas, such breeders only make the rest of the breeding community look bad. It's unfortunate, really. Ultimately, it's the dogs -- the ones who have no say in the matter -- who usually wind up reaping the consequences.
At least a megaE puppy has a caring home with his littermate.
*steps off soapbox; waves, then goes back to mostly lurking*
by kitkat3478 on 28 February 2014 - 22:02
Hund- maybe she just isn't as educated as you, her way of expressing herself,"is her way of expressing herself". She is a young girl, with big dreams!
The way she writes has nothing to do with her trying to educate herself. SHE IS TRYING....
She had bought herself a gorgeous male german shepherd, I was envious of the swell dog she had, I can't recall the kennel name, but he was a beautiful red and black showline male.
He ended up being too much dog for her, she acknowledged that, and did the right thing by the dog. She rehomed in a place better suited for the dog.
Why should she not have a German Shepherd or two while she Iis trying to learn more. That's why when she asked me if she should ask those questions here, I told her be ready for the bullshit.
AND knowing ahead of time what she was in for, she posted anyway.
She needs people to help her, not toss Iinsults at her.
She never planned to breed brother and sister, she took in a dog that needed love and care. IF she were looking to just say, abra cadabra, I am a breeder, she would not have got puppies, she would have got dogs to jump right Iin there.
This has been this girls dream, for years. It will more than likely be years, before she produces a litter of pups,
WHY TRY TO RUN HER OFF TO FIGURE THIS OUT ON HER OWN, ? She wants help.
Everyone wadn't as intelligent as you "in the beginning",hund....
I am going to try to continue to steer her in the right direction.
The way she writes has nothing to do with her trying to educate herself. SHE IS TRYING....
She had bought herself a gorgeous male german shepherd, I was envious of the swell dog she had, I can't recall the kennel name, but he was a beautiful red and black showline male.
He ended up being too much dog for her, she acknowledged that, and did the right thing by the dog. She rehomed in a place better suited for the dog.
Why should she not have a German Shepherd or two while she Iis trying to learn more. That's why when she asked me if she should ask those questions here, I told her be ready for the bullshit.
AND knowing ahead of time what she was in for, she posted anyway.
She needs people to help her, not toss Iinsults at her.
She never planned to breed brother and sister, she took in a dog that needed love and care. IF she were looking to just say, abra cadabra, I am a breeder, she would not have got puppies, she would have got dogs to jump right Iin there.
This has been this girls dream, for years. It will more than likely be years, before she produces a litter of pups,
WHY TRY TO RUN HER OFF TO FIGURE THIS OUT ON HER OWN, ? She wants help.
Everyone wadn't as intelligent as you "in the beginning",hund....
I am going to try to continue to steer her in the right direction.
by Markobytes on 28 February 2014 - 23:02
Jersey girl I am sorry you are learning the hard way. How would you handle the situation if the roles were switched? How would you handle pups born with mega-e, would you be able to put them down or find them homes? If your breeding dogs started to produce problems do you have the resolve to stop using them? Maybe you should put your breeding skills to the test and find these two dogs good homes. My intention is not to be mean but a breeder can not keep dogs that do not work out, you have been put in a position that tests if you really want to be a breeder and make those tough decisions that come with the job. Fiinding good homes for older puppies or adults comes with the job.
Your first step in becoming a breeder should have been to get involved in some type of dog training that is useful for a GSD such as herding or Schutzhund. Good breeders can train dogs.You need to have some knowledge that is useful to your clients and to know what kind of dogs you are producing. Are you prepared to answer behaviour problems your customers are having with the pups you are selling?
Your first step in becoming a breeder should have been to get involved in some type of dog training that is useful for a GSD such as herding or Schutzhund. Good breeders can train dogs.You need to have some knowledge that is useful to your clients and to know what kind of dogs you are producing. Are you prepared to answer behaviour problems your customers are having with the pups you are selling?
by alienor on 01 March 2014 - 04:03
Jersey Girl
Sorry you are having such a hard time trying to get started in breeding. It must be very difficult choosing and breeding excellent dogs and I admire people who are good at it and are set up to do it properly.
Not being a breeder, just an enjoyer of gsds, I can attest that it is difficult to get a 'good' puppy; sound, with no major temperament issues; much less one worthy of breeding. My personal feeling is that it is better to er on the side of not breeding if you are in any doubt. Trying to keep the breed sound and steady-nerved would seem to be the goal of everyone who loves these dogs.
Now, about the ear thing. I agree it is pretty late to try to deal with it, but try shaving or trimming all the hair off the outside and inside of the tip of the ear, say the last inch or two depending on how big the ear is. This almost always works on the long coats; the hair is heavy on the forming cartilage and even a gram makes a big difference in allowing the ear to stand. Probably too late but what the heck might as well try.
Sorry you are having such a hard time trying to get started in breeding. It must be very difficult choosing and breeding excellent dogs and I admire people who are good at it and are set up to do it properly.
Not being a breeder, just an enjoyer of gsds, I can attest that it is difficult to get a 'good' puppy; sound, with no major temperament issues; much less one worthy of breeding. My personal feeling is that it is better to er on the side of not breeding if you are in any doubt. Trying to keep the breed sound and steady-nerved would seem to be the goal of everyone who loves these dogs.
Now, about the ear thing. I agree it is pretty late to try to deal with it, but try shaving or trimming all the hair off the outside and inside of the tip of the ear, say the last inch or two depending on how big the ear is. This almost always works on the long coats; the hair is heavy on the forming cartilage and even a gram makes a big difference in allowing the ear to stand. Probably too late but what the heck might as well try.
by Hundmutter on 01 March 2014 - 09:03
SMH @ alienor's post ...
by Ryanhaus on 01 March 2014 - 14:03
OK, Jersey Girl,
I do apologize for bashing you, you did not deserve that
With that being said, I can understand how you may beleive you went to a reputable breeder,
I have done business with people I thought were reputable only because they have been breeding
dogs for a long time, just to find out they are doing things haphazardly.
I think you will have better luck in the dog world if you just take baby steps, make a list of what your goals are,
like what YOU can and have the time to achieve, then the results will come along better for you.
When checking out breeders and whether to get a pup from them, just make sure they:
1) Have health certificates/clearances on Hips/elbows and even more.
2) Have the AKC paperwork to register the dog/pup.
3) You are able to call THEIR vet and ask for a reference.
4) Are they working their own dogs in some form of venue in the dog world.
Good Luck, sorry I bummed you out,
Paula
I do apologize for bashing you, you did not deserve that
With that being said, I can understand how you may beleive you went to a reputable breeder,
I have done business with people I thought were reputable only because they have been breeding
dogs for a long time, just to find out they are doing things haphazardly.
I think you will have better luck in the dog world if you just take baby steps, make a list of what your goals are,
like what YOU can and have the time to achieve, then the results will come along better for you.
When checking out breeders and whether to get a pup from them, just make sure they:
1) Have health certificates/clearances on Hips/elbows and even more.
2) Have the AKC paperwork to register the dog/pup.
3) You are able to call THEIR vet and ask for a reference.
4) Are they working their own dogs in some form of venue in the dog world.
Good Luck, sorry I bummed you out,
Paula
by Jersey Girl 22 on 01 March 2014 - 17:03
Admin edit: removed private messages
by Jersey Girl 22 on 01 March 2014 - 17:03
admin edit: removed private messages
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