help..... i need advice on my two 8 month old german shepherd pups - Page 1

i recently bought back in August 2 german shepherd puppy long coats. One a femael and one a male. They are from the same litter.I talked with the breeder and took the brother bcs i wanted him as a pet only however the sister i bought her because i talked with the breeder and let her know i wanted to get into breeding. I bought the sister as a breeding female provided she passed all health testing and passed her hip and elbow certs. The breeder explain to me she didn't mind i wanted to get into breeding and she allowed me to buy her on breeders terms.

Now   I have two situations that i need advice on. They just turned 8 months on the 23rd. I have given them bones to chew on basically and toys and hard hard bones. My females ears go up ocasionally when she is outside very rarely inside but sometimes her ears come up in side but not as much as outside. As soon as i bring her back inside they come back down again. They are still floppy as also.  Now her brother on the hand his ears have not come up at all they stay down. The one left one i beleive would come up and be very floppy but then just drop back down. 

Now the second thing that is rong is well when i first got them and took them to the vet my vet seen they both had inbelical inhernias I told my vet that the male was on a spay and neuter contract so i am getting him neutered she told me that if he still has the hernia when they neuter him they will remove it if it does NOT go away. Which she told me meaning my vet told me that i have to keep an eye on the inbelical inhernia because it can very well turn Necrotic. She said as long as its nice and soft and squishy then it isn't to much of a concern however if it gets hard then it is. Now my female on the other hand i didn't plan on spaying her because i wanted to breed her provded she is breedable now the problem is she has the inbelical inhernia as well.  I was toldby acouple friends of mine the hernia can be caused by two reasons one the female was chewing at the cord to much and caused it or it is gentic. Now i have talked to a few people that have their siblings however they are only pets which they are getting spayed or neutered. i talked to acouple of them the one person who has their sister she has the inbelical in hernia and so does possibly acouple other sisters now the only other brother besides my boy does NOT have the hernia.  Which i honestly believe its gentic in my opionon bcs why would the other siblings have it if the mother did that. Now here is the problem on the hernia if i go and bred her and it is gentic im risking the puppies having the hernia as well which i will not do. Im sorry i refuse to do it. My two are the only one that have the ear problem as well. The siblings that i know of their ears are up.

Now this is what the breeder told me for their ears try the glue and the ear inserts maybe that will help their ears. Here is the big question what happens if their ears do not go up after that? Is there anything that can be done? Is it a possiblity there is weak ears in the pedigree?
Now the hernia she told me that it shouldn't be a problem at all she can very well possibly be bred and u can just get it surgically removed. I told her what if its gentic she claims it isn't but i don't know honestly. What's everyone else opionons on this and what do u think i should do? if she isn't breedable i mean i am going to take her to the vet my own vet told me that it can be a problem if u are wanting to breed her u may not be able to if it doesn't go away which the hernia did not. It is still there and has gotten bigger in my opionon. almost about a quarter size.  Here is another thing the breeder new about the hernia before i got the pups and didn't tell anyone about it she said the vet told her it isn't a big concern it should go away on its own. However she knew i wanted to breed. Can u please please give me advice on what i should do and if there is anyway i can get their ears to go up. i have photos if anyone would like to see them

thank u so much any advice would be helpful

too late on the ears. applying inserts usually works when a pup is in between 5 and 6 months. breeding dogs with soft ears just makes more dogs with soft ears. do you really want to use the female for breeding?

All the drama a couple of years ago and you still didn't bother to do
your homework properly ?

I agree with Hundmutter, you had plenty of information out there to research, 
it is very interesting how you asked for advise but yet did not take it.

How about>You  breed the brother and sister together, that way,
you will still be able to have some drama in your life!  

You really need to see what you wrote in your post, and read it to yourself, over....and over......and over
....and over........and over..........and over..................and over.........

 

I do laud the use of punctuation and sentence breaks, much easier to read, yes. -- Regarding the ears, far too late to do anything about them now. Soft ears are often genetic, and in my opinion ear forms, the foam inserts, have allowed this issue to be conveniently overlooked by those who plan to breed the dog. -- Regarding the hernia, how bad it usually correlates with the size; with larger being at a higher risk of complications. The smaller ones can heal completely (yes, they can go away), or they can heal over resulting in a firm nodule that is not at all necrotic, just encased in muscle and tissue. The necrosis comes when, in the case of larger hernias, part of the intestine slips through the hernia and gets caught or twisted. -- Umbilical hernias can be from trauma to the umbilicus, but are more often inheritable, like soft ears, and can be passed on from either parent. I delivered a C-section litter where all the puppies had hernias, even though the mother did not. Even the best breeding programs can throw genetic problems. The soft ears shoud've been brought to the attention of the breeder by the 5th month. The umbilical hernia, it is possible for smaller ones to go unnoticed when puppies are young, especially if they're not large, and "pop" back in depending on how the puppy's positioned. -- As it stands, I do not think the female sounds like a good breeding prospect, and even if she'd gotten ear forms it wouldn't change the fact she can pass on soft ears to her pups. Not all puppies, even from the best breeders, turn out to be breedworthy. If you're in the breeding game long enough, you'll learn the heartbreak first hand of holding a dog back for yourself for your program, only to find it doesn't make the cut later. Even breeders themselves can't 100% guarantee their own pup's future. Puppies are a gamble; the best you can hope for is going to a reputable breeder and hedging your bets. -- I'm sorry the pups didn't turn out like you'd hoped :-(

Thank you JC Carrol, i really apperciate your advice i really do. I honestly did not know that the two i have had hernias i was never told by the breeder until i recieved them and took them to the vet. They are almost around about a quarter size not quit a quarter size but almost. I also had no idea on the weak ears either. i researched and did my homework  and thought i was going with a reputable breeder i really did. When i first contacted her and talked wih her everything was fine i explained to her what had happend to me in the past and i wanted to make sure nothing is going to go rong and she understood all that stuff. I told her i would like to get into breeding but go about it the reputable way which she was fine with and willing to give me a chance. She never told me about the hernias at all i found that out on myself, she never told me about the possiblity of weak ears. I have spoken to her about the hernias and she said it shouldn't be a problem and all this however if its gentic then yes it is a very big problem and so are the ears. i don't want to breed her if this will pass on to her pups if not all of them most of them. Im not that kind of person i will not breed any dog if there is something rong. That is exactly what my vet said as well she explained all that to me 

Miras MOM i have done nothing to you for you to even bash me FIRST OFF, i honestly did do some research and thought i was going with a reputable breeder and apparently what i thought was rong . HOW EXCATLY am i suppose to know whether the ears have a problem or they have hernias UNLESS the breeder tells you which she did NOT do. As far as that rude and snotty coment of drama and lettng brother and sister breed I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE BUT I WOULD NEVR DO A THING LIKE THAT EVER I THINK THAT IS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO I AM SUPRISED PEOPLE DO THAT KIND OF STUFF NOT ME. I WOULD NEVER EVER BREED BROTHER AND SISTER OR MOTHER SON, FATHER DAUGHTER. I really think that is a shitty comment honestly and do u really think that i wanted this drama NOOOOOOO i didn't ask for this at all. I thought again i thought and went with the assumtion that i had a reputable breeder. It isn't my fault people are like this and all they care about is money rather than their dogs. I only came on here for advice NOT to be bashed. I have done NOTHING rong to you to deserve a shitty comment like that and honestly f u don't want to give me advice then don't commet at all then.

OK listen everyone BEFORE I GET BASHED ANYMORE  I DID INDEED DO MY HOMEWORK I DID NOT JUST JUMP INTO BUYING A DOG BECAUSE ITS ADORABLE AND CUTE I THOUGHT I HAD A REPUTABLE BREEDER AND WENT WITH IT. WHEN A BREEDER DOESN'T TELL YOU ABOUT THE HERNIA OR ABOUT THE EARS HOW THE HECK AM I SUPPOSE TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.  I have done nothing rong for anyone to treat me like a piece of crap on here if you don't have anything nice to say then please don't say anything at all

As far as the ears go i have talked with the breeder and when they were 5 months old she told me their ears were fine and i didn't have to do anything with them when i know for a fact my first shepherds ears were up by 3 months. But i took her advice and did what she said. Now again around 6 and a half going on 7 months i still told her about the ears and the hernia and how it isn't going away she told me the hernia should go away if it doesn't see what your vet tells you and i told her. Now the ears she told me again they were fine and sometimes because they are long coats it takes a while before they go up  So i waited again alittle while then told her their ears aren't going up but the females keep going up but flop back down she told me her ears are fine. She told me that i can go ahead and glue the boys ears, and use ear inserts for his ears and hers. However i know for a fact that being that they are 8 months old now that isn't going to happen they aren't going to go up at all. So in this case i don't know what i should do because i have done everything and tried everything thing i can do is get documentation then send it to her and see how that goes from there hopefully it goes well if not then guess i am stuck again. I do know it is gentic it has to be if 4 of the puppies had it.

Please i am a very good person at heart i guess because i am to nice people feel to take advantage of me. i guess that is part of my problem. i have another question now when i got the boy he is only for a pet companion. The reason why i got him and took him and am giving him a good home when he was a pup apprently e was diagnoised with MEGA-E now the breeder told me he should grow out of it and he honestly has which is a great thing i am releived he did. It isn't his fault that he had it. Sooooo my question is being that he has it in his genes does that mean the sister has it? I am sure it is gentic but i wanted to bring this up and ask about this? Beause if MEGA-E is gentic which i have learned it is in some cases that means that she has it too being they are from the same litter. I even asked the breeder because even after i got her i asked her if she is breedable will this carry on to her puppies being that her brother has it, well in this case she told me  NOO it isn't proven to be genetic you can still breed her she shouldnt have it. I again did more research and talked toa few friends of mine and they told me NOT to breed her because it will carry on to her pups no mater who you breed her too. So with the weak ears, hernia and now this. I am NOT breeding her at all. I do want to here tho what isyour intake on this as well

Please i am practially begging people i have done nothing rong to be bashed so please do not bash me i have done nothing rong i come on here to ask for advice. I didn't want this to happen to me i never did and never do so please no smart comments or rude remarks.  Also Miramom if i repeat myself i am so so sorry its called maybe being upset about the situation i am sure you have been thru it and done this tooo

Jersey Girl, I'm sorry you are dealing with the dissapointment of not ending up the pup you hoped for. Sadly it happens even when dealing with the best of breeders. As Jc. Carroll said, puppies are a gamble.  Sometimes it is is hard to know who is trustworthy and who is not. And maybe this breeder never bred this pair before and the soft ears and umbilical hernias were a surprise to her also. I don't know, but it is what it is and based on the soft ears alone you should not breed your female. 

I have heard that on rare ocassions the ears can be fixed at a later age. It may be worth a try. I am no expert, but it would be worth researching and trying a few things. Do a search on this forum because it has been discussed before. Even if the ears go up, she should not be bred.  

It is admirable that you took a pup with Mega E and I'm glad he is ok now.   It is clear you have a big heart.

At this point, my advice is to simply enjoy your dogs. Get involved with whatever you choose, whether it's agility, Schutzhund, rally, obedience, therapy work or herding and have fun. Leave the breeding to the professsionals. Breeding responsibly is a tough and expensive road, that comes with a lot of hard work and challenges, along with some heartache and dissapointment. No one could ever convince me to do it and I am perfectly happy leaving it to the knowledgeable and experienced.

Again, I am sorry things didn't work out as you had hoped.

Char

 

I don't know where you bought your pups from..  but..

A "reputable" (context) breeder would not do to you what this one has done..  which is:

Sell TWO littermates to the SAME home
Sell ANYTHING with a hernia to a potential breeding home
Not know that the parents are producing soft ears
Not KNOW that the pups HAVE hernias (and therefore not DISCLOSE this)
Not know what is IN the bloodlines they are breeding AND representing as BREEDWORTHY (IE they are selling with FULL AKC)
Not know that these things are genetic in nature, and a POOR risk for anything BUT a nice pet home....


So..  either they are pretty inexperienced themselves and REALLY don't know what they are doing,
OR
They simply don't care, and will tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear to make a sale...


It sounds like you have acquired two very nice and sweet pets..   and your choices are limited...

You either keep them, and love them, and enjoy them, and LEARN from them...

OR

You place them responsibly, and start over, being VERY mindful of all you have learned from the past.
Raising sound and healthy animals is an art.. it takes genuine devotion and talent to do correctly.. 
Some is learned, and some is not.

The people on here are pretty good at pointing others towards breeders with integrity AND experience/knowledge to BACK UP their claims...
Expect to be scrutinized by them as much as you would expect to do to your future breeder.

Remember, if you want to raise animals, you need to be part of the SOLUTION and NOT part of the PROBLEM.








 

http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/library/articles/germanshepherdupdate0909.pdf

This is a good article on mega-e. In some breeds, its mode of inheritance is dominant, in others, recessive. However, the study it mentions with German shepherds would point to a recessive mode of inheritance. The breeder was able to go 4 generations before the disease re-appeared, This means your female pup COULD be a carrier.    IF it were domininant it would have shown up in every generation.

You may have done your homework, but your breeder obviously didn't!

I'm sorry this didn't work out for you. Looks like your breeder was not as ethical as you thought.

Jerseygirl really is a very nice, caring person. She got snafooed by a crumby breeder, once again. She is trying to learn and this is the reason she does not post here,
      I MEAN REALLY, HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO BE NICE???
     I actually think you should tell us all who this breeder is, first of all , she totally gave you poor advice about the ears, and why on earth would someone sell a sister of a mega e dog, for breeding?
    If the ears did not go up on a pup I sold for breeding, I would give a replacement pup, and certainly not repeat that breeding again
And I certainly would not tell someone to go ahead and breed the mega e lines.
     obviously there are to many people breeding dogs that just don't give a crap what they produce. 
     I take great pride in my dogs. I actually think I have some of the best German Shepherds out there.
     Nothing better than satisfied repeat customers and referrals.(aside from happy healthy dogs of course).
    The female has a chance of her ears going up and staying up, The male is not going up( it must be crappy to get beat twice trying to buy a nice German Shepherd pup. But it happens everyday, beat once).
    If you are hands on with your puppies, you KNOW they got a hernia, especially when its more than one pup with it. 
     I myself would not breed that female. Consider this another lesson learned from the school of hard knocks, and don't let Iit happen to you again.
    If you make to the breeders ring, do not treat others, as you have been treated,(I know you won't).
    ?I have had umbilical hernias on pups before, but they alwsys resolved on their own. I know they were from the mother pulling that cord.
         jerseygirl is a young girl, that loves German Shepherds. She aspires to become a breeder sometime in the future, She is not looking to buy any two dogs and throw them togeathervand walah...breeder.
    But in the meantime, she is trying to learn, and how can she if no one wants to help her. She has to be afraid to come here and ask questions.
    I talk to her, I try to teach her things, but, I also tell her see what others think.Get different opinions of things.
     It won't happen again to her, her next dog is coming from me.
      So, please give a little advice when possible, it really don't cost much, to be nice...