Breeding a Black to a White GSD .. What is Possible?? - Page 2

It probably wouldn't be good to look too closely at the GSD bloodlines and DNA after WWII.  I wouldn't worry about the mutt thing as there are likely a lot of mutts in the stud books after WWII.  After WWII the Germans were I am sure shipping anything with ears and a tail that looked remotely like a GSD to the USA.  The Germans were starving and the USA was doing much better than any of the devastated European countries so the strong dollar bought a lot of GSD.  There was no DNA in those days so if it looked like a GSD it was a GSD and hungry people don't mind selling bogus dogs to the people who made them hungry.  The GSD population in Europe was devastated by the war so I am sure some shortcuts were taken in repopulating the GSD and exporting them to Rin Tin Tin land.  

bubba; You said you were not going to participate in this breeding. good! it will only take the owner of the 2 dogs to make this happen. Look at the honest, earnest replies you received to your post. It is this web sites best attribute. Experience GSD people helping to direct people to information and help in their quest to better themselves and their dogs. Your last rant is just pointless other than you can not operate like a ''human'' for more than a few hours. Every pure bred dog in history is haunted by dishonest breeders looking for profit. How do you profit by always seeing the poopie end of the stick? 

Those who beat their chests about the purity of the GSD as a breed overlook the inconvenience of history.  The exclusion of the white GSD from the breed was no doubt as much political as biological since the founders used whites for breeding stock.  I don't have a problem with whites and I don't see a white crossed with a black as a mutt.  The offspring will be GSD pure and simple .. just not recognized by a political party (SV) for being different.

I am sure there are many instances of unscrupulous breeders passing off GSDs that weren't purebred as pure GSDs. I personally know of one such case, and have heard of a few more. The one case caused the owner to nearly have a heart-attack, because he had paid a lot of money for his supposedly purebred dog!  (The person who told me about it refused to give details, as he was sworn to secrecy, but the dog's ancestry was revealed by a DNA test, so it happened recently.)

I also heard of another case of an obscure genetic disease popping up in shepherds from a certain part of Europe. The disease had never been found in the GSD before, but WAS fairly common in another herding breed that lived in the area. Hmmm...ya think maybe there was some friggin' in the riggin' going on?

Wish I'd kept track of the exact details of the above case.

I'd rather the breed wardens be strict about colour than too lax. A few years back, the collie that took BOB at Westminister was the offspring of a deaf/blind merle stud! Dogs that are homozygous for merle are often stillborn, or if they survive birth, suffer from severe genetic defects. YET THE BREEDING WAS STILL ALLOWED, and the resulting offspring registered, AND allowed to be picked as the #1 collie at the nation's most prestigious show!. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=531508-best-of-breed-collie-at-westminster-sired-by-a-blinddeaf-double-merle-opinions

So the merle on a collie is a defect?  Interesting, it seems like here in Texas those are the prize collies.

No, not merle itself, but DOUBLE merle. A heterozygous merle will not have any defects. It's only when two merle genes are present that the problems crop up. Merle is, I believe, dominant, so that is the reason they bred for a double merle stud, because his pups will always be merle! And, as you've said, merle is very popular. (Can you hear the cash register going 'ca-ching' ?)  So, this deaf-blind stud is quite the cash cow....er, bull for the breeder, ethics be damned!

The most common defects for double merle are deafness and micro-opthalmia (very small eyes), which causes blindness. Many pups will also be stillborn, or the embryos will die and be re-absorbed. The double merle stud was a singleton pup (no surprise there!)

With all the health implications of certain genes out there, I can't help but wonder why people make such a big fuss over a HEALTHY dog that is simply an incorrect color (such as whites cropping up, blues, like I just had myself, etc.). I'm not condoning producing off-colors intentionally, but the GSD, at least, should be valued for working ability/versatility over color, imo, in a hierarchy of attributes. I think more of a separation needs to happen in people's mentality- the folks intentionally producing dogs who suffer for their genes should not be lumped in with whites, etc. Breeding DEFECTS is far different than breeding something that happens not to conform to the standard in a purely aesthetic way. By not separating, those guilty of breeding these poor deaf and blind dogs seem to use it as a crutch- they think they're just being persecuted like breeders of whites, livers, blues, pandas, etc. While I have no sympathy for those breeding without and eye toward the standard, the uneducated but well-meaning, ignorant breeder of healthy livers is not nearly as much of a villain (imho) as someone cashing in on birth defects. 

Because white and blue are associated with genetic defects in OTHER breeds, and other animals, Jenni, these colours were banned by the SV. That's the reasoning behind it, even though we now know that's not true.

And politics did play a role, too, as whites were okay until the Nazis came to power.

Actually, SS, that's not the way I understood it. From what I've researched, it's got to do with the standard calling for a black nose, and that's about it. I never paid much attention until the blues were born, and then I was curious about where they came from and when they got the boot;-).  I could find little to support any logical reason behind banning of certain colors in the GSD. Problems in other breeds or animals as a basis for exclusion just doesn't hold water. Just say it's political and that's what was chosen for the standard and leave it at that. White cats with blue eyes are deaf too. You see my point? By using false logic to rationalize, those breeding for faults can just use the excuse that they're not doing anything wrong, it's just that they don't conform to the standard, yada yada yada. They can use the white GSD as an example, and say "See? There's nothing wrong with what I'm doing." When, in fact, what they're doing is, again, my opinion, inherently wrong because the dogs suffer, while the white GSD breeder is simply breeding something that does not adhere to the standard. I'm no fan of either, but let's be fair- one has health implications for the animal and one does not. 

I thought the whites were banned because of the herding aspect of the breed? Thought I had heard that somewhere. I dunno, I recently got V. Stephanitz's book, so if I can make it through the first chapter, maybe I'll find something in there.