BAD BREEDERS OF THE WORLD_ AVOID THESE KENNELS THEY ARE THIEVES!!!! - Page 2

It's exactly the same as the dangerous dog lists .. it starts with the Pit Bulls and pretty soon the Poodles and Beagle hounds are on the list too!!  Once you have a list it is easy to add another name.  Some sellers are dishonest and some buyers are dishonest or are looking for a purple squirrel dog for free.  Let's start a list of dishonest buyers as well as dishonest sellers and see how long both lists become.  If you want to complain about a business deal gone wrong involving a dog as either buyer or seller that is your business but don't expect anyone to care if there is nothing but bad judgment involved.  

Well, I have nothing against this idea personally. It helps keep the breeders accountable  Yes, anyone can have a bad experience with a breeder: the breeding didn't take, or the pup had problems that weren't evident at the time of sale, or the buyer is a nutcase (we've all heard about a few of THOSE!) But repeated complaints from different buyers definitely raises a red flag.

The kennel I've seen the most complaints about on this board is Kraftwerk, and its owner, Wayne Curry.

To go back to dogs from Serbia, and the two kennels mentioned above, personally, I would not deal with a breeder from Eastern Europe. Many of these countries are very poor, and very corrupt. Even if you do find an honest breeder, there are likely to be problems at all levels of the transaction (shipping, paperwork, etc. etc.) because nothing runs efficiently and everyone has their hand out for an extra couple of bucks.

Also, some of the most extreme dogs I've seen come from these countries, Romania especially. I've seen dogs with pronounced C-shaped spines that have won high VA awards. I think it may be a case of Germany dumping its unwanted stock on buyers who are only looking at pedigrees, and are not educated enough to judge the pup's actual conformation.

If you have no interest in this and do not care then stay off the thread and do not comment. You clearly have some reason to protect Ivan or you would not be speaking out so strongly. Or- maybe you too are a bad breeder and have cheated people and are afraid your name will turn up here?
Look on Facebook I have posted conversations between Ivan and myself. He did not send the dog twice- then after promising to return my money he has not. This is going now for 10 months -  It is clear who the "bad" person is here and it is not me.
People should know who has had problems with who. It is good consumer awareness. I know there are bad buyers just as there are bad sellers- if you want to list bad buyers go start a thread- this one is for bad sellers.
If Ivan honors his word and finally returns my money as promised I will post it. I have no reason to tell what is not true about him and I am happy to tell everyone if he does pay back my money. Until then I will continue to post and warn others to stay away from him. He uses the database and Facebook as places to find people who do not know this game he plays. He cannot cheat others if the word is out on him. How can you be against this?

If it is the third thread about Ivan then that should tell you something. For every person who speaks out there are many who sit in silence. Maybe they are embarrassed or afraid to speak out- I will not be a silent victim. I want people to know so this cannot continue. The GSD community as a whole is a great group and the majority of us care about improving the breed and take pride in our dogs and Kennels. This kind of dishonest behavior shames us all. To sit and say nothing and do nothing to stop it is to condone it- I will not do that.
If you wish to criticize this then quite honestly I suspect your motives along with Ivan. I do not fear the judgment of my peers on this as I have done nothing wrong and I believe the GSD community is honorable and will not tolerate such people in its ranks. Leave your comments as you wish and let all in the community decide for themselves. There is no honor amongst thieves!

In my experience the word honor has nothing to do with this forum or the dog buying or dog selling public ... any more than honor has to do with car salesmen and the out of town patrons of a Las Vegas bar.  There are plenty of dog for sale ads from US breeders advertising in the PDB who are either idiots or liars or both.  As in any business or vocation the people best educated and with the most experience tend to do better in buying and selling.  In most cases those with experience and education paid for it in one way or another.  Every dog I own has either been purchased from a seller within 150 miles of my home (Raleigh NC) or was bred from my own stock.  I wouldn't buy a used car sight unseen from a dealer in Serbia whom I didn't know well enough to trust and I likewise wouldn't buy a dog under the same circumstances.  I have purchased puppies and dogs sight unseen (except for photos and video) until the day that I picked them up and paid for them in person from sellers within 150 miles.  When I look at the ads for the GSD for sale on the PDB I can see all kinds of sins of omission and commission lurking .. none of my dogs are perfect and so I expect a lot of claims and praise for the dogs being sold are questionable .. the same with videos and pics .. a lot of dogs being slung about holding on to the sleeve rather than a flying launch to attack .. all part of the game.  I don't condone hyping a dog and faking drives and skills .. I tend to understate so that when the buyer arrives in person I haven't wasted their time and hopefully they haven't wasted mine.  Buyers wasting sellers time seems to be OK though .. at least in the buyers mindset.  Then there is buyers remorse even when picking up the dog in person .. another topic for another thread.

The 'for sale' ads here are very much like a used car lot. I like your analogy. I have seen dogs that have very clear defects in conformation and pigment advertised as having 'perfect anatomy' or being a 'future sieger'.

Caveat emptor, as the Romans used to say! 

If I had to buy a dog sight unseen, I would have someone I knew I could trust make the selection. It's too big a purchase to do without actually being there to see what you are getting. I drove over 11 hours to Ohio to pick up one of my current dogs, and I'd do it again, too!

The best GSD breeders' I've conversed with have some type of guarantee. A few offer the entire package, replacement
from H/D dysplasia, first notification if buyer has '2nd thoughts', deposit reimbursed, communication via electronic tech,
etc. And the commonality among these breeders are as follows: They've been breeders for many years; It is there 'lines',
and there familiar with them; They have a vested interest; The communication is sincere with a reasonable response time.
They train or have a reputable, private trainer. This minimizes distress among buyers/sellers. I know there are a few in USA.

In Czech Rep. (and I presume other geographic areas), they do offer a darn good pup with excellent bloodlines sans
guarantee and a bit less pricey.

I think breeders (Note: Breeders, not Sellers) and buyers have a mutual interest in the well-being of canines.

 

The latest from Ivan Lukic. Still saying he will pay but keeps changing his story- never commits to anything reliable.
Jan 7th 2014
IVAN- Send me again all bank details. Tomorrow will give you right date of sending payment.
Jan 8th 2014
IVAN-i was forward all to bout banks tomorrow will give me confirmation as all will send on friday
KELLE- ok that is great. Please send me a copy. Thank you.
Jan 9th 2014
KELLE- is everything in place to wire my money tomorrow? I would like for this to go with no problems so we can be done with this and start the New Year on a positive note.
IVAN- i will have all infos tomorrow, today i was transfer some sun in dinars from some other accounts to USD account in banks which will bee transfer money to you
that was very hard and breve step, hope that Good help me to not finish in tax police!!!
KELLE- Looking forward to hearing from you tomorrow- and my bank.
KELLE- If you send money as promised God will be on your side as you will be doing good and keeping your word personally and professionally.
Jan 10th 2014
KELLE- Please send copy of payment today when you have completed as promised.
IVAN- Sun as will back home tomorrow will take documents and send you. I am out of Belgrade know!
KELLE- did you send money?
KELLE-Nothing is posting to my account. ....did you send the money?
Jan 11th 2014
IVAN- how you think that money can come to your account imediately???
Usual is about 5 working days. As i was tell you in last mesage when back home will inform you about details
KELLE- I am asking you if you sent the money and are you going to send me copy of transaction? It is a wire transfer it should not take 5 days. 2-3 most.
SUN JAN. 12TH 2014
IVAN- Tomorrow will back in Belgrade and will send you all details
KELLE- Was money sent friday?
IVAN- i was signed all documents and left in bank, my accountant is out of Serbia also, tomorrow will get all from bank when i back also and will send you
KELLE- Ok. Are you saying you don't know if it was sent? And you will complete tomorrow if not already done and send me details?
IVAN- i was writhe you this:
i was signed all documents and left in bank, my accountant is out of Serbia also, tomorrow will get all from bank when i back also and will send you
IVAN- will contact you tomorrow know i was come to friend internet just to see messages
Monday JAN 13 2014
KELLE- Did you go to bank and are you going to send payment reciepts as promised
KELLE- Hello- once again you are not doing as you promise

Looks like there's a language barrier, maybe he doesn't understand you, or you him??

REALLY?  - No there is no communication barrier- read the rest of the posts, see what he has been doing and for how long- I am not the only one either- HE IS A THIEF