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by wallacepayne on 08 June 2013 - 18:06
I think it is now time that judges be held accountable for there performance on the field in terms of judging. With the competitors getting more and more advanced in training techniques and raising the bar every year, the judges should have the bar raised as well. The competitors have to keep up with the changing time and techniques and rules changes but the judges are still operating off of a old system to keep up. Having a judges college once a year is not good enough! It's not working anymore something else should be added to the program! When you can have two judges looking at one performance at the same time, on the same field, on the same day and be 18pts apart it's clear that there is indeed a problem. If one of those judges were doing his apprenticing the presiding judge would have had a HUGE problem with the apprentice judge even if he was in a different category let alone 3 categories and 18 pts. off.
At the GSDCA-WDA Nationals this year the director of judges of the WUSV was asked to say a few words on what he was looking for. All he said was, he judge by the rules and if the competitors knew the rules then there would be no problems. How can we? When at the same championship another judge told me that he was not going to judge the event like an international event. Really?
Now don't get me wrong, I think judging is difficult there is a lot of knowledge and concentration that goes into it. Most judges can't train there dogs on the weekend because they are off judging. In a lot of case cheap hotels, bad weather, shitty food, bounce checks, club that don't know what they are doing, in general they sacrifice a lot to be a judge. However, the competitors spend anywhere between a $1000 to $2000+ to compete in these championship and they too have to endure the same sacrifices as the judges.
Ok to my point, I'm for the judges decision is final, I'm for we can not challenge their ruling. However, at every major championship each performance and the critique should be recorded for the Director of judges or a panel to review. We now have the ways and means to make that happen. This way all judges when accepting a judging assignment at a national event know that their performance as judges are being watched by someone other than the competitors and it could have an impact on if he or she get another national event assignment anytime soon if at all.
It should be and honor for a judge to be selected to judge at the national level. Just like the championship is to select the best of the best in IPO that day. The judge should be the best of the best! Our old system of selecting them is not working anymore.
At the GSDCA-WDA Nationals this year the director of judges of the WUSV was asked to say a few words on what he was looking for. All he said was, he judge by the rules and if the competitors knew the rules then there would be no problems. How can we? When at the same championship another judge told me that he was not going to judge the event like an international event. Really?
Now don't get me wrong, I think judging is difficult there is a lot of knowledge and concentration that goes into it. Most judges can't train there dogs on the weekend because they are off judging. In a lot of case cheap hotels, bad weather, shitty food, bounce checks, club that don't know what they are doing, in general they sacrifice a lot to be a judge. However, the competitors spend anywhere between a $1000 to $2000+ to compete in these championship and they too have to endure the same sacrifices as the judges.
Ok to my point, I'm for the judges decision is final, I'm for we can not challenge their ruling. However, at every major championship each performance and the critique should be recorded for the Director of judges or a panel to review. We now have the ways and means to make that happen. This way all judges when accepting a judging assignment at a national event know that their performance as judges are being watched by someone other than the competitors and it could have an impact on if he or she get another national event assignment anytime soon if at all.
It should be and honor for a judge to be selected to judge at the national level. Just like the championship is to select the best of the best in IPO that day. The judge should be the best of the best! Our old system of selecting them is not working anymore.
by bubbabooboo on 08 June 2013 - 19:06
Videos are now made at all sporting events from PeeWee to MLB and somebody is going to look at them and if the umpire makes a clear and gross mistake it will be known. Baseball is being drug toward video review but it will have to happen because the video camera sees all in many cases and more than the umpire or judge can see.. We can forgive the inches violations of touching the bag or making a tag out in baseball but those mistakes so large as to be unbelievable are the target of video review. Video review is inevitable whether sanctioned or unsanctioned so all sports had better embrace it and use it for those cases in which the umpire or judge has a bad viewing angle or makes a large mental mistake. Wallace is right on target in that uniform judging and confidence in the judge's ability and dedication to making the right call even if he must reverse himself strengthens any sport.
by gsdstudent on 08 June 2013 - 20:06
very thought provocative; everyone should think of their part in the GSD world. Some are capable of top level, some only the beginning rungs. It should never be trainer against judge or vice versa. The vast majority of judges do their part for the breed[s] and sport, with very small compensation and few thanks. The same can be said for the hosting clubs and support personel. All people are in the same boat rowing in the same direction, right?
by gsdstudent on 09 June 2013 - 08:06
more thoughts; How can we [ dog sports fancy] afford to have more education of judges? virtual trials? video? Bringing the judges together in person costs $$. The judges are supposed to be active in dog sport to balance their marking of trials. Welcome them into the arena. Some of the judges can not train at the top level for many reasons. Have you ever traveled to events a dozen or more times a year and also kept a dog in training? How about a marriage? A top base ball umpire may not be able to hit the ''curve ball'' from a top pitcher but he can tell you if it was a ball or strike. How about this; Encourage them by being the best you can be. Get active politically to be more certain only the top level judges get assigned to the regional and National events. Most judges see a ''big assignment'' as a perk. It is recognition by their peers that they are ''on the ball''. How much time do each of us donate to the betterment of the breed?
by wallacepayne on 09 June 2013 - 12:06
gsdstudent,
In my post I did make mention about the sacrifices the judges have to make. What you are suggesting has always been suggested and tried. What I'm proposing is in addition to what you are talking about and is different, and has never been tried. I'm not saying your idea is not a good idea I'm only saying they are trying your idea and it's not working.
In my post I did make mention about the sacrifices the judges have to make. What you are suggesting has always been suggested and tried. What I'm proposing is in addition to what you are talking about and is different, and has never been tried. I'm not saying your idea is not a good idea I'm only saying they are trying your idea and it's not working.
by Dobermannman on 09 June 2013 - 22:06
Wallace
I don't think we're talking about judges needing more education. In some recent cases the judges knew the rules and they deliberately deducted points from the competing organization. We need a judges review committee but if you think that's going to happen when one of your own screws over the other side? That ain't never going to happen. :-(.
Thomas Barriano
I don't think we're talking about judges needing more education. In some recent cases the judges knew the rules and they deliberately deducted points from the competing organization. We need a judges review committee but if you think that's going to happen when one of your own screws over the other side? That ain't never going to happen. :-(.
Thomas Barriano
by ramgsd on 10 June 2013 - 01:06
That's all good in theory. And I feel that we should have fairly uniform judging at all trials. What we have to remember is that there are things in a trial that a judge is supposed to look at and judge that boil down to personal opinion. For example they are to deduct for guarding in the blind and in the open that is not convincing. Now fast prey barking in the blind may be convincing to one judge and not another. If a dog gives one head check as his handler approaches this may be deducted for by one judge and not another.... So there will always be variables in scoring depending on who's judging. Just shouldn't be an 18 pt. difference.
by steve1 on 10 June 2013 - 04:06
What Wallace has said is a good Idea and it should apply to all Judges everywhere not just the USA, although saying that in our country we are happy enough with the way judges award points but complacency should not be allowed to take hold. What baffles me is why do you need TWO judges for one Phase. What is the need to do so. You certainly do not get any more competitors in a big event than Europe and they do not see the need for Two judges per phase. in fact it has caused a lot of unrest so you Guys have not gained nothing but lost out in effect which is a terrible shame.
Do not talk about having two different organizations you are not alone. If you do it simply to be different to other countries then you have scored an home run, but it has not made any of you Guys happy, and the Guys over here who know the outcome of the event in question and we were talking about it yesterday after training just reply it,s there way to be different from everyone else, but they will find in the long run it not to the advantage of the Dogs and Handlers. So what goes on in the Sport in the USA does not go unnoticed over here, we too are interested in who is competing for the USA team.
Steve1
Do not talk about having two different organizations you are not alone. If you do it simply to be different to other countries then you have scored an home run, but it has not made any of you Guys happy, and the Guys over here who know the outcome of the event in question and we were talking about it yesterday after training just reply it,s there way to be different from everyone else, but they will find in the long run it not to the advantage of the Dogs and Handlers. So what goes on in the Sport in the USA does not go unnoticed over here, we too are interested in who is competing for the USA team.
Steve1
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