Just a thought - Page 1

I have been reading this forum for years and this past year started posting a bit.  This forum is constantly bombarded with posts or horror stories of people buying from bad breeders or breeders being slandered from bad buyers.  
Maybe I have always been Lucky in this area.  But I don't think it is that, rather I think it is because I spend time reading and researching realizing the nature of the animals as well as the nature of people and why everyone responds the way they do.  I have two shepherd females and an older Doberman.  The Dobie is over 9 years old and any one who knows Dobies know he is on borrowed time,  every day is an extra treat to have him around.  He is still in fairly good health but he doesn't have a whole lot of energy any more.  He is very protective of his girls (the shepherds) wants to play with them but he tires out easily.  I know my time with him could end fairly quickly.  I don't look forward to that day.   I don't think you can ever prepare for that.  But after he is gone, I will be wanting to bring another dog into the house.  For that I will be prepared, when I come to that point I will have done the research to know what I want, and whom I want to get that next dog from.  I will want to do the same as I have with the females as in I will want to do a co ownership.  My reason is I know I don't have the knowledge to breed shepherds and will want to maintain ties to the breeder so as to utilize their knowledge and experience.  I very highly respect the breeder whom I received my girls from.  If she called me and cussed me out for something I had done that she disapproved of I would respectfully take it to heart.  

I just don't understand how people who are looking for a new dog don't spend even a fraction of that time to find a good breeder.  They spend more time to figure out which chicken noodle soup has the best value then they do of bringing a new member of the family into the house.  and some breeders will sell a dog to any fool who has a pocket full of money.  I only have to find one good breeding and one good breeder,  I feel sorry for breeders trying to find good homes for multiple litters a year.  My heart goes out to you knowing you see way to many failures.

Hmmm - all very true, and I keep saying I wish ppl would put much
more effort into pre-purchase research too.  
I'm a bit less in agreement with your penultimate sentance though.
If breeders haven't got a ready market lineing up for their puppies,
wtf  are they doing, breeding 'multiple' litters in any year ? 

maybe  I worded that part wrong.  but the idea is just difficult to make sure that the homes their pups are going to are fit homes.

I took that last statement to mean you sympathized with the angst a caring breeder goes through to make sure every pup is in the right home, not that they have so many they can't find homes for them all. 

I agree- buyers want to buy any old thing and expect it to turn out wonderfully, and they want it cheaply, and then when it's not totally perfect, they want to take it back and get all their money back like it's a toaster oven from Walmart. KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WITH IT BEFORE you buy it. Then, TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW IT TURNS OUT- TAKE PROPER CARE OF IT, put as much into the dog as you want to get out of it, and you are less likely to be disappointed.

It's mind-boggling to read these stories on here. I will be criticized for saying this, but I see a common thread in some (not all!) of these ultimate horror/rip-off stories. I see people trying to buy breeding stock for less than puppy prices and then bitching about quality of breeder and dog. Um, duh?? You want a breeding dog for $500? $1200? Um, you're missing some zeros. Go complain to Chevrolet when your Cavalier can't outperform my Z06. The mentality is that they can go out and buy a few cheap dogs from "breeders" who are either in a bind for personal reasons or just don't really care that much, then turn around and breed them to another dog they picked up cheaply who has some big name dogs back 4 generations and then sell them as breeding stock because they have testicles or a uterus still and on and on. The money mentality is pervasive. These are the same people who are likely to come on here and complain (ever notice how many are the same type of breeder as the one they're trying to bash?) that the dog is what you'd (meaning the rest of us, a logical majority...or minority, lol) expect for $800. There are days when I want to buy all the poor breeding dogs offered for $1000 because I feel damn sorry for them and know exactly where they're going to end up. It really is a vicious cycle. 

I personally think limited registrations aren't used enough.

2 sides to that coin, too. Some of the really mediocre "breeders" will use that avenue to protect their kennel name, while churning out dozens of litters of subpar pups that are no better, likely, than the ones they're trying to prevent. If the breeder is indeed worried about the dogs themselves, then yes, limited reg. can be a godsend. But most of the people guilty of what I'm talking about, the constant buying and selling of cheap young adults for breeding, don't care enough so it won't change. 

I don't like to say how much I paid for my dogs but it was much more then 1200 but with a co ownership,  I know I don't have the knowledge of shepherds to be a breeder.  but I do have some working and training knowledge.  My intent is to work my dogs and if they meet our expectations then the breeder can handle that step.  I will learn more, hopefully be a little wiser and when we get our next dog we will handle it much the same way.  I don't think you get the knowledge to be a good breeder in just a couple of years.  I also have to admit I like being around people and enjoy being associated with an established kennel group.  the encouragement that I have received, pointers, contacts, etc. are invaluable.   The friendships formed are irreplaceable.  I don't think I would ever be a good breeder 

I have to agree with you guys. I've known people over the years who purchaes shepherds that were a great "deal" from breeders only to find out the dogs were nothing but crappers. I can't even begin to tell you how much one girl my sister worked with spent in buying dog. And every single one was either SO dysplastic they could hardly walk, had such horriable temererments they would piss themselves if you so much as looked at them or one was sold as a breeding bitch but in truth she had been spayed. All she was really buying was papers on usless dogs. Who themselves had never done anything more then crap in their kennel runs.
Happens in my breed all the time too. Heck i think it happens in every breed. People think they can "Get Rich" by buying cheap and then selling poor quality puppies that if your lucky have a current set of shots and nothing more. Papers? Yeah they pee on news paper, so thats the best papers they have. A fool and his money shall soon be parting. And the dogs are the ones to pay the price. Handed around like a bag of chips or dumped at the pound when dumbass finally figures out dog breeding thats money. Lots of money. And no one really wants their piss poor puppies.
Gerrrr!
Fry

Many first time owners go to reputable breeders only to be turned off by the 8000 page contract and a large purchase price.  Alot of my clients purchased from backyard breeders to avoid the contracts.  They sometimes end up with great dogs and they sometimes end up with poor health and bad temperment.  There is a huge market for inexpensive untitled, un health tested GSD.  Sad but true.  Every time I see a breeder complaint on here my temper flares.  You buy an adult dog for 1200 bucks you get what you pay for.  If you are lucky enough to get a great dog, then you are just that really lucky!  Some of the dogs in rescues are better bred and nicer dogs than stuff I have seen out of the BYB stuff. I just think the purchaser should take a bit more resposibily in their purchasing.  I have bought two dogs in 27 years that were absolute crap.  2 that is it.  Both were shipped in from Germany, both were grossly misrepresent and both were purchased through brokers.  I cut my losses and didnt go bad mouthing the breeder. 

First time buyers should

See the mother and father ( father only if he is available) but at least see the mother.  If she is crippled, spooky, dirty Walk away
Never buy sight unseen , this is for experienced persons only
Ask for a minimum of Hip and elbow x-rays
Go play with the pups at least two different times.
expect to pay 1000-1500 for a good working line and 1500-2500 for a good Showline  paying more than this is not a guarantee of quality this price is for an 8 week old untrained pup no guarantees of quality but should have a solid health guarantee.  If someone sells you a show pup at this age they are full of crap " show potential" is the only thing they can do at this age.  Puppies are a crap shoot even when the most experienced breeder on the planet picks them, yes they have a better idea of what they are looking at than a rookie, but still no guarantee.
Don't buy a puppy if you want a guaranteed working dog that will go VA.  Buy A VA dog! And expect to pay through the nose for it, someone has weeded this animal out of many others, they put tons of time into it and expect to get some sort of recompense for their work.
And for heavens sake if someone is selling a Sch 3 Va KKL dog for 2000.00 I guarantee it is a scam or the animal has some serious issues.  ( Ok maybe one or two people have gotten a great animal for this price but....) Use your heads is all I am saying

Rant over.....

Limited registration is the avenue that animal rights groups use to make something extinct. Wait until they pass the law of personal property. Where your animals are no longer considered personal property and they can come onto your property anytime day or night to check your animals.These types of things are what limited registration is all about taking rights away from respectable pet owners. This is where it all starts. People that beleive otherwise are just nieve. Remember things might seem positive but the agenda is really to take rights and privleges away from the citizens starting with labels.