Question on hips? - Page 1

I have Dog A and he has A normal hips, and I breed him to Dog B (who is normal), and I get a litter of six and all progeny have certified hips, and then I breed Dog A to Dog C (who is normal), and I get a litter of six pups, three of which are moderate or severe when xrayed. Now based upon the prevailing wisdom I have read on the form, do I eliminate Dog A and Dog C from ever being bred again? This would seem to be consistent with various opinions I have read on the forum.......or should more importance be given to the compatibility of the two dogs being bred?

No on elimanating and yes on compatibility. IMO.

About dog C - Any other litters or was this the first? Maybe A and C together create a breeding that throws bad hips. If C has had a litter before how were hips from another male?

I'm really curious about whether Dog A should be eliminated from breeding. I have heard different opinions on dogs who throw  HD, so I have tried to give a scenario;  to understand how people  would view this. Sometimes when opinions are applied to actual situations its not so black and white! We have people with strong knowledge and opinions on hips, I would like to hear the reasoning on this for enlightenment. I really think the reasoning presented will help new people to the breed understand the difficulties in hips.

How were pups in second litter raised, ie, diet ? No, to eliminating from breeding.

I don't think I'd eliminate either from breeding just based on the info given but probably wouldn't breed them to each other again.

I'm really curious about whether Dog A should be eliminated from breeding. I have heard different opinions on dogs who throw  HD, so I have tried to give a scenario;  to understand how people  would view this. Sometimes when opinions are applied to actual situations its not so black and white! We have people with strong knowledge and opinions on hips, I would like to hear the reasoning on this for enlightenment. I really think the reasoning presented will help new people to the breed understand the difficulties in hips.

The problem with this though is that you don't know if A or C is the issue. A has proven with B to not throw bad hips. What changed? C.

If I were in that situation in real life I would eliminate breeding to C with A.

In "simple" genetics,  it is 1:1 ratio... perfect scenario it tells me that (if polygenic) that these two dogs are not compatible... that is all! Both carry the gene that is expressed phenotypically in 50% of the offspring.

Personally I wouldn't repeat the breeding, but would not withhold either dog from breeding in a different direction. However I'd not use any of the normal siblings in a breeding program.

In fact that happened to me. Had an outcross litter out of 2 OFA dogs with OFA parents and g-parents (not GSD's, another large breed prone to HD). 9 puppies, 2 so severe they had to be put down at 6 months - literally no hip sockets. No HD in the dam's litter but I found out that the sire had some severly dysplastic littermates as did his dam. Bred the same bitch again, this time a tighter breeding - half brother to half sister GASP! 11 puppies, every one xrayed, no HD. Never used the sire of the first litter again. Only one from the second litter was ever bred, she produced one litter of 7, all got OFA numbers. I kept a male from that litter, he produced 37 puppies in the US, about 25 in Italy, never one with HD.

Had that bitch produced ANY HD out of that second litter, I'd have retired her from breeding.

But I have repeatedly heard people say that if this sire produced ONE severely dyspastic dog...the dog shouldn't be bred again....now it seems people are focusing on compatibility of the two mated. Some of us always view a dog this way, so we won't eliminate a dog from the gene pool because of the results of one litter.....but I have seen many dogs condemned because of the results of one breeding....maybe some from the other side can throw some light on why the dog A should be eliminated. I also think this applies to the degrees of the certified dog as well.