how & what do you ask a breeder - Page 1

imo i got lucky with my pup and am real happy, happy enough to commit further to the gsd breed. so in 18months / 2 years i will get another pup. i have learned a lot along the way with my firsty. as said it was mostly beginners luck cos so many other dogs my pups age approx 18 months that i have followed including littermates and e-friends have not done so great. of course a lot have also done better in the training dept.

my next i want to not rely on luck or rely or on opinion forums either - what medical records can i expect to see from the breeder - hips and elbows of parents usualy not a problem, how do i confirm epilepsy, DM, teeth, testicles, bloat.......etc in the line other than just relying on the breeders verbal. is it too much too expect a typical breeder to have these documents back generations even if they obviously haven't bred every dog in the line. the pdb has hips/elbows but that is just a small aspect. i am not even sure why hips and elbows has prominence over evry other thing in people's conversations - until ther dog dies young?

any advice to help me get my next one to be right by design and not luck. don't want any opinions on drives etc just verifiable health stuff - what d you do to check and confirm these matters??

For someone who does not want any opinion sure is asking a lot of opinion from this forum...

This is not the place to find those answers i would talk to TRACI NEEDLES OF NADELHAUS GERMAN SHEPHERDS. Her head is on straight and she will be honest with you.

research, research, research.  Just talking to a breeder isn't going to be enough.  as proof read post on dissatisfied customers.  you can find good breeders off this board.  know what you are wanting out of a dog, try to find a breeder that breeds to standard.  titles are important because it shows ability.  you already know health testing is important.  find someone who has the reputation of honesty.  almost no one is going to have a spotless record as far as dissatisfied customers, but you can read and see those that appear legit and those who are just trying to stir up trouble.  If a breeder seems touchy about certain subjects that isn't always a bad thing.  they too are human and have been rubbed the wrong way at times.  you have heard that there is no such thing as a stupid question?  well when you are sincere most good breeders will be more then happy to answer any questions regardless.



Just my 2 cents

Reggie

There are No Guarantees in life...and that goes for dogs (German Shepherds) too...That goes for puppies in particular...Puppies at best are a crap shoot...I mean you have their parents and that's about all you have....You just hope that your puppy turns out somewhat like their Sire and Dam...If you don't like them...then don't buy the puppy....

I tell people if you want to know more about a puppy and have more (sorta) guarantees...then buy a more mature dog and you will see much more of what you want to know...

I understand you want to verify tests and so on...And you can do so on some tests...but to me so many of the tests will tell you only some very subtle things...

For instance...If you talk about Hip/Elbow scores...A dog/dogs can have poor scores...So you'd think or say that their progeny wouldn't be worth having...Well look at pedigress...And you will see that the parents hip/elbow scores don't always equate to their off-spring having poor hip/elbow scores too...In fact it can be just the opposite...

I feel these tests are like anything else...A Tool...One to use in the overall view of a dog (pedigree)...

Remember: There Are NO Perfect Dogs...

~Bob~

P.S. You certainly don't want to rely on Luck...totally...But it's part of the deal...You have to be Lucky to get what you want...Particularly when you're dealing with the unknown (puppies)...

Pack, I'm stealing that icon!

Last week I had someone call and ask "How wide is your puppies padding at the shoulder?"  First off, I didn't have the actual litter, so I referred her to the bitch owner.  I hope he had fun with that one! 

First arm yourself with some knowledge of the breed, common genetic, health, soundness, etc concerns of the breed,  what soundness certifications a dog should have and what age that dog can be certified,  the need for vaccines, regular deworming, heartworm preventative, flea prevention and treatment, etc, grooming requirements, training requirements, etc   The more knowledge you have, the better you'll be able to determine the quality or lack thereof in dogs and litters and the less likely you are to be fooled by impressive sales pitches, evasive tactics, or excuses.

Basically there are three major styles of GSD within the breed, the American conformation show style, the German conformation show style, and the German working dogs.  German working dog enthusiasts are usually most concerned with breeding dogs that have the physical and mental characteristics necessary to serve in law enforcement, military, and other working situations.  In competition, German working dog enthusiasts  try to attain and/or repeatedly attain perfect scores or as close to perfects scores as possible at the highest level of Schutzhund and other working competitions. .Familiarize yourself with what the ideal characteristics are for the style of GSD you want.  You have to KNOW what quality IS in your chosen style of GSD before you can recognize a quality dog when you see one.

If you're looking for a dog from German or American conformation show lines, learn what the most commonly seen German or American show titles are.  If you're thinking of buying an imported dog from Germany or other country, familiarize yourself with what kind and color that acceptable official registration paperwork should be, what Schutzhund title or other country equivalent the dog should have, what conformation title or ratings the dog has,  and how to determine that the dog has an acceptable hip certification, koer report, etc.    

The more knowledge you gain, the better you will be able to ask questions and already have a good idea of the kind of answer an honest knowledgeable breeder should be able to give you. 

Here are some examples of questions you can ask that a good knowledgeable breeder should be able to answer acceptably.

Are the puppy's parents OFA certified at least for hips, ideally certified for hips and elbows (or A stamped or have another country's equivalent of these certifications)?   A German dog must have his A stamp in order to be breed surveyed and a German dog must pass his breed survey with a Koer 1 or 2  in order to be bred and have SV registerable progeny.  A dog cannot be OFA certified until he or she is 2 years of age. A bitch shouldn't be xrayed for OFA if she is in heat, pregnant, or has a litter under 8 weeks of age. Unless a dog is under 2, or a bitch is under 2 or a few months over 2 and with a litter, the dog should be OFA certified at least for hips. In such cases, you can either check the OFA website for other dogs under that breeders kennel name to see if that breeder is in the habit of OFA certifying dogs, or get a copy of the pups pedigree, at least the names of the grandparents of the pup, and see if they're in the OFA database.

Have your dogs ever had or produced any problems?  All breeders, unless they only have one litter and happen to get lucky, will at some time produce some kind of problems in their dogs.  No matter how conscientious a breeder is about selecting and breeding for genetic health, soundness, temperament, etc, nature simply doesn't make everything perfect. The honest knowledgeable breeder will admit this fact.

Almost every knowledgeable breeder can tell you the disappointment  of a promising youngster they kept for breeding, only to have that dog fail to have hips good enough for OFA certification or develop some other problem, or the disappointment of a high quality sound dog with OFA certifications etc (particularly when that dog has OFA Excellent hips)  whose breeding career was ended after only one or two litters because he or she produced severe HD in those litters. Any breeder who claims their dogs have never produced any hip dysplasia or other problems, is either lying or hasn't ever bothered to look to see if their dogs have any problems or produce any problems.

Ask the breeder why he made that particular breeding.  A knowledgeable breeder makes breedings to try to improve or strengthen desired characteristics, breedings that produce litters deep in quality with a high level of uniformity often are repeated.  A knowledgeable breeder doesn't make a breeding because a male of the same breed was convenient and free to use, because she wanted her bitch to have at least one litter, because his male was horny and needed sex, or any other such poor excuses that are so typical of backyard breeders

Ask to see the pedigree of the pups or the pedigrees of the parents.  Ask the breeder about the dogs and bloodlines in the pedigree..A knowledgeable breeder should be able to point out well known dogs in a pedigree, explain what the titles in a pedigree mean, etc.  If a dog is advertised as being out of Ch., VA, SchH, or other titled dogs and bloodlines, there should be dogs with those claimed titles and lines within the first 3 or 4 generations of a pedigree.  A dog advertised as being out of Ch, VA, SchH, or other titled dogs and lines, should have more than one or even a few such titled dogs  in the 5th or 6th generation of its pedigree .

A knowledgeable breeder will give you a record of the puppy's vaccinations, deworming, heartworm preventative, etc and inform you when the puppy's next shot, deworming, etc is due.  A knowledgeable breeder will advise you to have the puppy vet checked as soon as possible, usually within 3 days after you get him, so you can make sure your new puppy is healthy and also so your vet can continue your puppy's healthcare routine. A knowledgeable breeder will also be feeding his dogs and puppies good quality dog foods, will tell you the food the puppy is eating and where to get it, and usually give you a small bag of the pup's usual food to get you started. 

A knowledgeable conscientiious breeder who cares about his or her dogs will as YOU questions to determine if you're suitable to become the owner of one of their dogs or pups, and to determine which, if any of her dogs or puppies will be a good fit with your household, family, other pets, lifestyle, activity level, etc.
 
A knowledgeable breeder should ask you questions such as:

Ages and number of children in the household, activity level of the people in the household, as well as species of other pets and breed, sex, temperament, and age of any other dogs that may be already in the household

What is your household routine,  is someone home all the time, if not how many hours will the dog be home alone during the day? 

 Do you have a kennel run at least 6 feet in height or a fenced in yard of similar height to adequately and safely confine the dog outside?

Your relationship with a knowledgeable breeder doesn't stop after the money changes hands.The knowledgeable breeder is often willing and able to help you with behavior issues, training issues, and other such situations that may arise with your dog. Quite often, if you ask your knowledgeable breeder for advice soon after a situation first arises, the breeder will be able to advise you how to handle and correct the situation before the problem has a chance to get out of hand.  

 

thanks genetics and others, i value the time to pass on yr knowledge.

GSDGenetics, not long ago on one of the many threads which got into the
questions you should ask breeders (and be prepared for them to ask of
you) - sorry don't remember which one exactly - someone suggested that
we ought to have a permanent  such 'list' among the Articles.

But nobody seemed confident to write such a thing (given that Oli wasn't
offering a fee;  and these views can get contentious responses sometimes).

Your post above however would seem to do an excellent job - would you
consider offering it to the Admins  to post as an Article ?  Sorry edited cos i
wrote   Tutorial  originally.   There is already one there but its more of an
all-breeds sort of thing.