Help with GSD PPD Prices? - Page 1

Hello everyone,

This is my first post but I've been lurking, learning and reading for a while now. I'm hoping people with actual experience with my question will chime in. 

I have been looking for a personal protection dog (I'm not interested in a sport dog.) for a few months now and as I'm sure many of you already know the prices are all over the map. I've been quoted as little 5K on up to 65K, with the majority of this falling into two price groups $10-15K and $30-35K

I've asked all the people I have spoken to why their pricing is what it is and have gotten just as many different answers.

The only answer that I got when asking a $35K guy that might make sense is "Titles; you are paying to know that this dog will do what it is told when it is told, will not try and kill everything it see's and it has been through the most rigorous police training in Europe.'' This makes some sense to me.

When asking a $10-15K guy you get the "They are just charging more because people equate price with quality, this dog can and will do the same as any $35K dog. I can raise the price if you would like!"

I have spoken to some really nice people but felt as if something was off (gut feeling) and then I have spoken with some that a lot of people praise and I wonder if they have ACTUALLY met the person they are defending or praising on the board because I went and met them, saw their place and wouldn't recommend them. I even had one guy that I have never met in person tell me he found a dog for me after one phone conversation. He then sent me a pic of the dog and was extremely pushy and told me he was a trainer and knew what I needed and if I passed on that dog I was crazy. Then got insulted that I passed on him altogether! Mind you I have never met him or seen the dog in person. I will not buy a dog without seeing it first. And yes, I will travel to see the dog prior to making a 15+ year commitment.

And for those that are going to ask, No, I have never owned a PPD. I am in the Pawn & Jewelry business with a  few different locations. I do carry everyday and as a Marine I'm extremely situationally aware but as we all know everyone can let their guard down for a split second and that's all it takes. Carrying cash and jewelry from one location to another there is always a high risk of threat. Do I need a PPD? No! Would it be good to have someone watching my six when I'm doing my day to day? Yes!

QUESTION/REQUEST:
can anyone with actual experience please help me with which price range I really should be looking at? 

Can we equate it to Camaro vs Lambo or Rock Island vs. Wilson Combat? Or is it Chevy vs Ford?

I appreciate any and all help.

Michael

PS. I did look at the Malinois but get the impression they may be too high strung for me. To be honest after a 12-14hr day I have no desire to play. I haven't ruled them out altogether just thinking a GSD may be a better fit.
 

 

Michael, really can't offer any advice except that you seem to have pretty good "gut" feelings. Titles and price are not in any way an indication of quality for your needs. Quite a few stories on here of "titled" dogs heading for the exit ramp when trouble shows up.

Many years ago, a very good friend of mine adopted a shepherd mix from the pound. She figured he was about three years old and what a great dog. They lived in the country and one day her children were out back playing on the trampoline and all of a sudden she heard Max barking. It was a bark she had never heard from him before. She went running out back to check on the kids and saw three coyotes surrounding the back of the property. She was panicing and yelled at her kids to stay on the trampoline.  She just had to look at Max, she said, and he just knew what to do. He took off after the closest one, then the second one and then the third.  She said she was amazed at how Max just knew what to do. He stayed with the kids until she came out and once she was out back that is when he knew it was ok to leave the kids and chase away the coyotes. Now that is a PPD if you ask me. His cost.....$125.00 at the pound.

I am sure Rik is right;  but I am curious as to why someone who would not
buy a dog 'unseen', and doesn't vitally 'need' a Protection Dog, would want
one he had not trained up himself, Michael ?

In hearing that a full set of titles "proves a dog knows what to do &
how to do it and will always do it for you when told to" type comments,
especially when justifying really high prices ($35K ? ), I also want to
point out that, whatever the price range,  that reliable performance is all still
dependent on whether YOU bond with the dog, whether it respects YOU
'cos you know how to command a dog;  anyone who thinks any dog can
be so ('well'?) trained that it will switch allegiance & obedience to you
just like that as new owner is full of BS imo.

Btw, you have to play with GSDs too, to get the best out of them in any way.

Thanks for the replies Rik and Eldee.

Hundmutter you bring up some very good questions and I will try and give just as good an answer.
   
 "I am sure Rik is right; but I am curious as to why someone who would not
buy a dog 'unseen', and doesn't vitally 'need' a Protection Dog, would want
one he had not trained up himself, Michael ?"

The simple answer is I have no idea how to train a dog. I'm not a professional trainer. When I need electrical work done I call a pro I'm not sure why this would be any different. I'm not against the idea but I would still have to get a pro trainer so it's really the same thing at the end of the day except you didn't know the dog as a puppy.

"anyone who thinks any dog can be so ('well'?) trained that it will switch allegiance & obedience to you
just like that as new owner is full of BS imo."

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. Dogs are traiters! They love whoever loves them and will give them a good life, especially when the original trainers are nowhere to be seen.

"Btw, you have to play with GSDs too, to get the best out of them in any way"

I fully intend to have a strong relationship with my dog, I was simply pointing out that after a long day just like you I wouldn't want to play ball at 9pm.


Michael
 

With all due respect, you would still need to learn training, how to read your dog and how to work it to properly own a personal protection dog. It is not something you order off the shelf and expect it to work for you like it did the trainer. Your thinking on this is wrong. 

   You do not want to put in a full day and go out to play ball at 9? You may want to get a stuffed german shepherd and use a bark on a recorder then instead of a live animal. Even my 10 year old retired show line needs running and ball play at least four to five times daily. My 2 year old who is also my 24/7 service dog going about his whole day at my side traveling with errands and working still needs to go out and play ball at 9 and I would not have it any other way because he put in a full day of work and that is his reward. You cannot think the dog would be working all day protecting you and he should get stiffed any play he needs at night. He would become increasingly filled with issues and then you would both be unhappy.

The price for a professionally trained personal protection dog should reflect the training that the client has requested.



Many people have different ideas of what a personal protection dog is, and most people do not want a dog that will actively engage in a fight because of liabilities.


MichaelCox- sent you a message, check your inbox.


Kim

Michael, every dog owner hates to hear this, but dogs that 'love' you
don't necessarily always 'obey' you.

Dogs that obey you usually do that because e.g. you ARE willing to
play ball with them at 9 pm.  They don't know its 9 pm and you've been
working all day.

You say you don't know HOW to train a dog;  yes all owners - even the
experienced ones ! - can benefit from Classes or 1on1 prof. training.
But if you really have no idea at all, you may get a bit of a shock as to
how much you'll have to learn, just to get consistent basic obedience,
with any dog - whether or not it has already been trained to work for
someone else.  For instance, if you don't know how to handle the leash,
how are you going to stop your new dog deciding it can take you for a walk,
even if it had been taught to 'heel'.  Even seeing eye dogs with their
specialised training have to work with a trainer and their new partner at
the start of the relationship.
Yer average GSD ain't no Rin Tin Tin.
And you are talking about having one that has learnt it CAN bite ...

I reckon you REALLY need to think about this before you shell out loadsamoney.

People sell for a price the market will bear. Most trainers selling PPDs will require that you be trained with the dog. That is, you must know the commands the dog has learned and what he will do in various situations. You also have to be prepared for the "outside the box" response since dogs, especially German Shepherds, aren't robots. If you are away from home a lot and want a dog to guard your house while you are gone, any large guarding breed (not herding breed) will do. German Shepherds are a herding breed that need a lot of interaction with their owner through regular training, exercise and workouts. They are a very active breed. I have come home at 9 pm and had to throw a ball for half an hour to exercise my GSD. Then there's feeding and grooming and petting. If you still want a PPD, that is, a dog that accompanies you throughout the day while you are working and with whom you interact with throughout the day, a GSD or a Malinois would be fine. If you want a guard dog for your home while you are away, please invest your money in a good home security system that is monitored by the security company. The constant monitoring should give you peace of mind.

Thank you for all the replies.

I think we have gotten a bit off course here and I'l take the blame for not explaining myself properly and fully. When I say I'm not a trainer I expect to be trained on how to communicate with the dog when I get it, be it a day or a month. I understand that the dog will need constant stimulation and it will get it by hanging out with me all day going from place to place. I understand that the dog will need maintanance in its training to stay sharp.

I have read on the board others asking the same information roughly and it always seemed to run in a sour direction. Either other GSD owners are so passionate that they feel no one but them should own a GSD or the OP did truly sound like a knucklehead.

I came here for advice and I truly hope I get it. NO, I'm not getting deffinsive about what is being said but I've asked a ligitimate question and I would like some answers if their out there as oppesed to "You're an idiot OMG how could you do this to a dog!" One last thing when I was active in the Marines I did interact with a few dogs and know full well what they are capable of. I simply don't want a dog that hot. I need a dog with good balance. Think of it as a dog that says "I don't want to fight and I don't start fights but I'll end one."

One last thing albeit just to make myself feel better. No, animal in my care has ever wanted for anything and has been loved just as much and in most cases more than any family member.

Michael