Surgery options for tumor - Page 1

Hi everyone, I’m new here. My German shepherd, Hershey, is not well. He is 10 years 7 months old. Based on the radiology of the abdomen, the vet says that Hershey has a kidney mass. He may also have a mass (tumor) on the spleen as well. The vet says it’s neoplasia, possibly associated with anemia - no EPO production. VD shows severe arthritis of the hips. Report are showing anemia with low pcv, rbc's and Hb. Biochemistry shows elevation in ck, aslt, ast and ldh.

Our concern is that we were thinking about the option to operate and remove the mass if there is any chance that we can improve and extend his life. Would anyone recommend surgery as an option? I’ve also attached the xrays below. If anyone has any advice or insight based on similar experiences, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

Before considering surgery for a mass of unknown origin in the abdomen, it's a good idea to see what the lungs look like, too--if the mass(es) in the abdomen are malignant, and there's been metastatis to the lungs, you have to weigh how much additional time you'd be getting a 10 year old dog if you remove the masses, assuming surgery went well and there were no complications, when there's already evidence of the cancer having spread.  Splenic masses in GSDs are usually hemangiosarcoma, which are bad news, and the fact that Hershey is anemic is troubling, but that doesn't mean surgery is out of the question even if there's been advancement into the lungs...that's where it gets into the personal choice realm.  For some people, the thought of putting an older dog like this through surgery, when there's no hard and fast prognosis, is too awful to even consider. For others, it's a case of regardless of whether it will prolong the dog's life or not, if the surgery will keep the dog comfortable during whatever time they've still got on their dance card, then they'll have the surgery done.  In this kind of situation, there is no single correct answer.

Is there any lymph node enlargement anywhere? Does he have other health problems, aside from the arthritis? An important factor is Hershey himself--how is he, in general? I'm guessing he's not his usual self, which is what led to the vet visit and the bloodwork and the x-rays...but how long has this been the case?  The arthritis certainly has an impact on him as well, but that can be managed. 

Until the mass or masses have been identified by a pathologist, there's really no way to predict anything, because you don't know what you're dealing with other than the fact that there's a least one mass, he's got some decrease in organ functions (liver & heart in particular) and he's anemic...if you want more data to work with before deciding on surgical removal of the mass, you'd need to have additional bloodwork run, and/or have a sample of the mass or masses taken for biopsy.

I wish you all the best, whatever course you ultimately determine is the right one for you and Hershey.  It's never easy, no matter which road you choose, at times like this.

My past experience with a dog his age has been this.  I have learned thru the 39 years of raising dogs (large dogs) not Gsd's but a medium to large breed is that when you go in and mess with this you are asking for major trouble;  PLUS now you have put the dog thru a very painful and excruisating surgery and probably will only buy him a week or so to say goodbye;  that is not my idea of a wishful goodbye.

I do not know you and I do not know your dog but seriously think about your dog and his time left with you,  just enjoy him for now and if he is suffering from what you have mentioned above, he is trying to tell you he is reaching the end of his time.

I would not recommend you do anything except keep him comfortable and painfree and hug him a lot and even if this means maybe giving him a Tramadol or some other type of pain med's from your vet, there are ways to just keep him comfortable and happy until the end.  I know this is very hard but I have put more dogs thru surgeries that honestly I wished in the end I had not done; especially something like this and yes your vet will probably want to try for you and all that crap, but think about your dog first, and particuarly if it is something that is NOT going to heal and you have a giant open wound to contend with as well as the pain you have put your dog thru.  Best of luck to you and your dog  Nan

I agree with the two posts above this one.  But I am going to give you the name of a wonderful specialist vet.  He laid out the options for me.  Of course he will not be seeing your love, but maybe he can help you to decide better from a vet's view who has not much to gain from you if anything.  He does a rotation on Thurs.  Here is where they expect to be --

Dr Proulx [sounds like "pru"] at California Veterinary Specialists Ontario, CA  909/947-3600 until about noon
Then Murrieta CA 951/600-9803 for the afternoon on Thrus.  He is off on Fri and M thru W he is in the Carlsbad office.

I do not know what or if he will charge a consult fee and what it would be as that is Not my business.

But do listen to those posts, but if you want another professioal statement, read him what you posted there.  I call him a killer of tmors as he was able to save my dog with a very difficult sitation, but yours is also very very difficult.  You may use that title as it will ID me in case you need to describe me.  I have a silly sense of humor.

I will say prayers for both you and your dog and I have also done the best I can for you.

Best wishes!!!!!

bump

@hexe
For some people, the thought of putting an older dog like this through surgery, when there's no hard and fast prognosis, is too awful to even consider.

Having lost a GSD with a splenic tumour 2 weeks after an operation to remove it and the cancer having spread to the kidneys, I fully agree with the above, seeing the extra pain he went through makes me still feel guilty to this day that I chose the option to operate.


@Nans gsd
I couldn't have put that better


Please take in what has been written so far and seriously reconsider your thoughts of surgery, the odds aren't that good really...

 

My previous dog died of hemangiosarcoma, similar presentation at age 7, survived less than a month after diagnosis. Palliative treatment is the way to go, hard as it may sound.

I'm sorry you're having to go thru this, he's a very old dog and surgery would be painful and hard on him, recovery time would also be extended - like an 80 yo person.

We all love our dogs and want to do everything possible for them.

You will have to decide if the risk and pain of surgery is worth the possible outcome of extending his life a couple of months.

I had a 7.5 yo that during a spay, the vet looked around and found a growth on her spleen, which was removed. She made it through the surgery, but died post op, still hooked up to monitors, she just stopped breathing and then her heart stopped. They did all they could as she slip away.

I understand those who are urging to abandon any thought of surgery because of the dog's age.  By the same token, each case has to be taken individually.  I spayed Hexe at 8 years of age, having left her intact initially because I had been considering breeding her IF I'd continued on with her in SchH, gotten her surveyed, etc.; she recovered from that uneventfully.  A few years later, she developed a mammary tumor, which I had removed and biopsied, and when the biopsy indicated it was malignant, we took out the whole mammary chain and the inguinal lymph node.  Again, she recovered uneventfully.  A year later, when she was 13, she experienced a fibrocartilagenous embolism, and while doing prep chest films for an MRI (before we had a diagnosis for the loss of the ability to stand or walk) we found evidence of cancer in the lungs. A year after that, when her right eye doubled in size out of the blue, there were only two choices: remove the eye, because it was causing her great pain, or euthanize, because it would be cruel to make her live with that pain, and it couldn't be controlled.  We did the surgery, and she came through with flying colors--easy surgery, and easy recovery.  All of these surgeries DID extend her life and it was a life of EXCELLENT quality. If I had only factored in her age, and didn't look at any of the other components of the equation, I would have lost a lot of years that were fantastic.

Yeah, a mass on the spleen is most likely going to be hemangiosarcoma, and I don't know that I'd do surgery for that, either...I know of people who were able to give their hemangiosarcoma dog an additional year of good time by replacing the blood the dog was loosing from the slow leaking of the spleen the disease can cause (which results in severe anemia), and I'd probably consider that route for one of my dogs, especially since I have another dog who could serve as the donor dog. 

As I said--it's not an easy decision to make, and before I'd make any decision at all, I'd want to have the vet check out what the heart and lungs look like. The condition of those will be critical to what you have to work with for Hershey.

Thank you so much everyone for all your feedback. I really appreciate it. It's very difficult to go through this, but it feels so nice to be able to get help and feedback from all of you. Based on what I've read, and the vet's feedback, I have put the option of surgery on hold. Prognosis on medium and long term is likely poor. It would probably be best to take a conservative approach based on painkillers and joint supplements. I will make Hershey feed as comfortable as possible and I can only hope for the best.