Very interesting info on sables! - Page 1

While going through my bookmarked sites, I saw this.  Not sure where I got it from, maybe it was from here.  At any rate, I wanted to share this as it contains AWESOME information on our sable GSDs.  It goes into great detail and anwsers pretty much all questions and theories.   If this was posted here before, please accept my aplogizes.  

Umm...link? :)

Ummmm DUH!!  Sorry!  

http://www.arlett.de/sables/index.html

OK I have read this article a couple of times before and just reread it now. A couple of things I disagree with and I always have. One is in the first part of the article where sables are not popular in Southern Europe. I don't believe that--I think they are very popular all over the world. The next thing is that a homozygous sable is very rare and to quote "if such a dog exists at all".  Then it goes on to say farther down that when a sable is bred to a sable, 50% of the puppies will be homozygous. That's a contradictory statement. They are not rare. As many sables being bred to sables I'm sure there are quite a few that only carry the sable gene--AA. Arlett asked people if they had such a dog to contact him and I did and of course no answer. Also I do not believe that a homozygous sable can never produce a longcoat. If you breed your AA sable to either a coat or a coat carrier, why could they not produce sable longcoats. IMO the gene for coats and the gene for AA sables is a totally different gene. Sure they may not produce a coat in the first generation because longcoat is a recessive. But bred right in the second you can absolutely have sable coats. If you breed a coat or a coat carrier to an AA sable that also carries the recessive for coats then how would you avoid getting a coat? My last point is that sable females and blk/tan females from a sable background will be way more geared to regurgitate food for their puppies--never heard of such a thing--not saying GSDs do not ever do this but I am saying it is not exclusive to sables. So with having said all that and also Arlett was doing showelines, it makes me wonder how much of the other stuff in that article is true? I am no expert by any means, but there are some things I do know. Before I knew what I know now I used to reccomend that article to people, but no more. Just my 2 cents worth.

This is one source of information. As with everything, we should never stop trying to educate ourselves with one source.  There are some things in this that I do not agree with or believe in, but there are some things that are very educational.  Its up to the reader to pursue educating themselves more and decide what to believe in.  As making a decision because the writer is a breeder of a certain line is definitely not what I would make a deciding factor as to what I believe or not.  JMO

I don't think you can knock Margit Van Dorsen (von Arlett kennel) on her knowledge of
GSDs and related issues,  its a very well established, successful & respected kennel,
and she's done more to bring the greys back to the WGSL than anyone else, I think.

I believe she's right about the Southern Europe thing :  how many sables do you see
in Spain and Italy ?

But yes there are some inconsistencies in this essay;  don't forget she's writing in a 2nd
language.  It was also written some while ago - as I pointed out in another recent post,
our knowledge and communications about sables & genetics improves all the time, nothing
stands still or stays 'set in stone', most things are open to question as they are tested over
the years.

First:
A homozygous sable IS rare!! Only the uninformed would think otherwise.
You are speaking about one of the most experienced breeders in the world.
I do believe some language translation could be a problem.
Debby

Lanting on sables: http::siriusdog.com-color-genetics-sables-breeding-shepherd.grau.htm

Sorry, the text editor won't allow me to make a live link of that, or even copy and paste links. I had to copy it by hand. If it doesn't work when you paste it into your browser, google Lanting-sables-genetics, and it will pop up. Scroll down in the article until you find the heading "Sable Myths".

He says the sable and longcoat genes are on different loci (locations) on the chromosmes, and have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. If the longcoat gene is less common in sables, it's because the foundation stock of the sable dogs (which are mostly German working lines) had very few longcoat carriers, while the longcoat gene is much more common in the red and tan showline dogs.

Thanks Sunsilver for that link. Very interesting read, especially the myths part. And I happen to agree.

I am not uninformed and I do not believe homozygous sables are rare. As I said above every sable to sable breeding has a 50% chance of being homozygous and as many sable to sable breedings as there are, they can't be rare. Also my mentor has been in the breed over 30 years. When we bred my boy to her blk/tan she said I hope they won't all be sable. I told her no way they are rare. And she gave me a lesson that very morning on sable genetics. No she's not considered by some to be one of the most experienced breeders in the world. But her mentor is--Carmen Battaglia--who writes books and does seminars all over the world.

The reason there could be less sables in Spain and Italy is some people don't like them as much. I have never been to those countries so I can't say I have seen more or less. Since I don't fly chances are very slim I will ever visit there.

I'm not arguing or saying why anyone is right or wrong,  I am just sharing my thoughts and why I believe them. And until I am physically--like where I can see it--proven wrong, I will continue to believe what I believe. BTW my boy IS homozygous for sable and if it is so rare how in the heck did I get so lucky? LOL

 

Hundmutter, I have to agree with you on that about the second language and I wouldn't second guess her on anything.  Very interesting reading.  Like I said, There is something for everyone to learn in the article and no one should base opinions on just one source.  

Thanks Sunsilver for posting the info by Fred Lanting.  He is very knowledgeable also.  I like to research and read as many as I can and than decide what I want to believe in, but yet I am still open minded to EVERYTHING I read.