finding a good breeder - Page 1

if you do a study and realize the cost to correctly raise a dog to the age of breeding, and include all if the expenses of rearing and raising a litter of puppies, the price is cheap.....here's a short list of expenses.......

cost invested in raising a female.........
2 years of food and vet bills
2 years of toys, and other chewed up stuff (bones and the like)
2 years of training
Hip and elbow certifications
other genitic testing
licensing fees and taxes
kennel club registration fees
 

then for puppies.........
stud fee
vet examinations for mama
vet examinations for puppies
1st vaccinations for puppies
puppy worming, and stool checks
special puppy weaning food and food after they've been weaned.
litter registration fees
cost of guarantees if a puppy has an issue and price/partial price refune or replacement of puppy.......

you cannot expect someone to put in years of time, sweat, tears and expense and recieve nothing in return can you?

rachel - I started typing this out once, then there was a glitch and I lost the posting (Admin: please note);
but what I was writing was very much on the same lines as what SitasMom just posted.
There are lots of breeders (not just here in the UK) who will say that to people buying puppies.  A pup is not
a one-off expense like a washing machine, where you just pay out a lump sum and then if you are lucky you
either don't have it go wrong, or if it does you've bought insurance to cover repairs.

If you buy any dog, you have to be able to afford lots of ongoing expenses - food, basic medical care like
vaccinations, flea products, etc (never mind some occasional emergency veterinary bills).  Not to mention
possible damages to other peoples' property ... we all like to believe we will be lucky & "it'll never happen
 to us"  but all to often things DO go - expensively - wrong, that's just part of what you take on when you
keep a pet.

You say you only want a pet, but you write of 'top breeders';  to get your puppy, a 'top' breeder will have
bred to try to get not just pets but pups that are right for Show and/or Sport/Work.  So 'top' breeders
lavish care on their bitches and their puppies, maybe more than what SitasMom listed, when you take into
consideration the costs of health tests etc.  Any good hobby breeder, whether or not they are  really successful in the Showring or
anywhere else, who cares about what they are breeding, not just for themselves and prospective owners,
but also for the long-term good of the breed as a whole,  will do all these things, spend all this money,
and so expect to get the "going rate" back when they sell their pups.  Anything wrong with that ?
 
The figure you mention is the current going rate;  more for a really good, well bred prospective winning
dog;  sure you can get a pup cheaper - but then you run the risk of buying from someone who has not
only just produced 'pet' quality, mediocre specimens of the breed, but also may not have done the
necessary health checking, or fed and raised and socialised mum & pups as well as they might.  You pays yer money, you takes yer choice, as they say - or you can get really unlucky and saddle yourself with a 'puppy farmed' dog that dies a fortnight after you buy it.        Linda Swift.

  

Hundmutter, you are spot on!!! Good replies Sitasmon and Hundmutter .

That is complete BS. Even if I don't intend to breed my bitch, the costs are the same. Stud fee + vaccinations + extra food for the mom + misc, do not add up to a litter. And keep in mind, the second litter is the same. And the third. People that add in the cost of simply raising a dog are reaching. Average 6 Pups a litter over 3 litters. At $1500, that's $9000 a litter and $27,000 over three. Even at $1000 a pup, that's $18,000.

do you go to a car dealer and expect a bently for 2000 just because your only going to drive it on the weekends?  Good grief.

A breeder must consider the costs of owning the breeding bitch her entire life.  A responsible breeder will keep their bitches so you can cost estimate 1200-2400 a year + for vet/high quality food/treats/toys/training etc times however long the dog lives (10-15 years) + hip/elbow offa expenses of buying/raises bitches that end up not being breeding quality, spay surgery after retirement etc all adds up to losing money even charging 1000 a pup.  This is without titling.  With titling/showing its more.

Puppies are a pain in the ass and a ton of work, if you're not housing them in concrete kennels with a staff to clean up after them, and actually care about who each one of them is as an individual personality deserving of the proper home. They are not worth the measly financial reward. Only a nutcase would breed for the money. You really have to love the matchmaking aspect of it to get any real reward. The time invested in those pups is where the money comes in, imo, and how I justify price. My vet bills aren't that high, and I feed my dogs whether they're pregnant or not. I like pairing puppies up with people, and I like breeding for a purpose/goal, though selfish, and I charge people for my time- hours upon hours upon hours on the phone, entertaining visitors nearly every weekend from just before birth until time to go home, having my home open to the public on short notice, inviting puppy buyers who've driven for hundreds of miles to stay at my home rather than a hotel, thousands of emails, many of them amounting to nothing, and countless hours observing and analyzing puppies in order to pair them up with the right buyer. It's kind of a big undertaking, if you take it seriously. Done right, it's very rewarding and it's well worth the time and aggravation and work. 

It's a bit different for the huge breeders who have 20+ dogs and 6 litters on the ground simultaneously. I can understand where some buyer suspicion comes in. At those prices, there's a good bit of money to be made, and I sure don't see how it's humanly possible to spend all that time with, say, 42 puppies, as opposed to 5-10. How those breeders match puppies accurately is something of a mystery...could be why they mostly go to pet homes or people are often disappointed with the temperament of their pup. No way can they know the temperamental ins and outs of that many dogs, let alone the pups they produce. There are a few exceptions, of course. 

rachel - If you  are still determined to buy a dog, and are sure you will be able to manage the ongoing day-to
-day expenses for the next 10 or 12 years, but you still don't see why you should pay market rates, perhaps
you could consider giving a loving forever pet home to a slightly older 'rescue' dog ?
Lots of shelters and welfare services in our breed, because such huge numbers are produced; they too will
charge you a fee or donation, but it won't be quite as much as a well-bred puppy AND you get the added satisfaction of 'doing the right thing'. Just a thought.