First time whelper - Page 1

Those that know me, know I don't post often and know that I am blunt when I do post. I will not bother coming back to reply or read if folks can not stay on topic. And for a brief history for those that do not know me....I have been breeding GSD's for over 22 years, so please do not go on for 5 pages explaining to me the process.

I have a first time bitch, very sweet 2 year that was due yesterday. But this dog has kept me up for 3 nights now. Two days before her due date she was acting like she could start the labor process, so I kept her quite in her whelp room where she has access to the house as well. But the darn thing just is not doing what is in the norm or even slightly above or below the norm. I have never had a first time mom act so strange.

So now we are a day after due date....not worried at all yet this is normal. It is obvious she is in first stages of labor but her behavior is odd....she will not stay where she is suppose to stay unless I am in there with her and even then she comes over and lays on me.....she just will not let me out of her sight. But dang it I need some sleep.

She is discharging and nesting but she rather have these dang puppies on my bed. but only if I am in it. And I guess the strangest part is she is just WAY TO happy go lucky for a dog that should be showing signs of labor PAINS....she just will not settle down I guess is what I am trying to say. Most dogs get up and down but then settle down into focusing on whelping. She just will not focus....and she is not a nervous anxious dog that has to be with people so the odd behavior has me wondering......I have never seen this before.

Has anyone had some odd experiences with first time whelpers? Anything close to this?


Sorry I know this is not even close to explaining what is going on, as it is just that odd, but hoping someone out there is going ahh ha....I went through that and know exactly what you are talking about...:)

Have not had it happen to me, but there has recently been another thread on here where the bitch in question had
a very very strange phantom, with apparently most of the symptoms you just described but no pups at the end.  The
owner was less experienced than you and came on asking how this could be.  Sorry I'm not yet skilled enough in
use of the board to cross-link the ref to here, but I'm sure you can find it on one of the last 2 or 3 pages - it's titled something like "Day 59 and nothings happening" - you might find it of use or at least just of interest.  Linda.
 

Any idea what size litter she is carrying?

If this were my bitch, I think I'd be concerned enough to take her to the vet, and have an x-ray done. Maybe there's a pup blocking the birth canal, or maybe it's such a big litter that the uterus can't contract fully (uterine inertia).

That aside, first-time pregnancies can be a bit weird for both humans and animals!  Is she normally rather clingy?

I would give calcium right away Calsorb is best but if not 3 extra strength tums in milk with sugar. If no pups in 3 hrs I would head to the vet.I have found long pre labor inertia is usually due to lack of calcium and glucose muscles are weak. I always give Calsorb during whelping it makes for easy delivery

If she is past her due date - I would for sure take her to the vet.....

I had a cat that would wait for me to come home to have her kittens.  If I left the whelping room - so would she - she would herd me right back into her bed - she would go as far as taking her feet and holding on to me while she gave birth........she wasn't a first time momma - but she wanted me there for her so I didnt let her down on that......... Cant see a dog would be much different...  although I don't have a dog that does that........I make sure I am close and present for their births.

Take the girl to the vet just to make sure nothing is wrong - then put her in the whelping box - and stick with her if there isnt a problm -   my whelping area is very cozy for me to sleep - make yours as well..........

Yogie

I have read about others experience with false or phantom litters....not the case here, I have seen movement and can feel puppies on external palpation.

I would have to guess about 8 puppies. No X-ray done on her. She is not a social dog at all and the stress of taking her outside her turf out weight getting an exact count. I can say I have only done X rays once or twice and never feel a need for it. I say this because although they can be accurate, they usually are not.

Short story, had a bitch in labor with obvious issues, took her to a closer vet then my regular vet that was over an hr away....wanted to save time. Told them the situation and what they needed to do....they proceeded to take X rays and came back and said my dog was not pregnant. I told them she has passed her plug already and she has puppies in there she either needs a shot or a c section....nope they refused to help me because X rays showed no puppies.

Well on the way home she managed to get one out.....it was dead. I marched right back slapped that dead puppy on their desk and called bullshit on them all and stormed out and drove over hr to regular vet.....lost the whole litter.

Two reasons behind my decision I do not use nor like most vets...THEY ALL THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL AND THEY DO NOT!! Some day I will tell you several stories of stupid vets and the BS they cause. I bred horses as well and have lost some due to stupidity in a "vet"

Sorry I have been in this game WAY to long and you do not learn things from a book...life is what wrote these books and vets need to get off their high horse and realize that owners do know a thing or two sometimes.....this is exactly what my vet that was over an hr away said......more vets need to listen to the owners.


There I go going off topic.

So no, I did not nor do I do X-rays. Even with X rays there can be issues....let's say you X-ray and the X-ray said 8 puppies but one was hiding behind puppy number 7......then 8 puppies come out and you think it's done, oh but puppy number 9 was in an unusual position and causing issues.....and your thinking, "oh but the trusty vets and X-rays said 8 puppies so maybe it is just INDIGESTION WHICH I HAVE HAD A "VET" SAY BEFORE TOO......sorry now I am doing it again.

No, I do not do X-rays and I ONLY go to a vet when I know I need help....and again I will tell a story that will make your jaw drop and you will understand why I educate myself where I have forgotten more then they will ever know so I do not need to go to a vet.

Anyway yes, there could be puppies blocking the cannel, but she is not far enough in labor to warrant any concern yet to feel that way.....there could also be allot of things, but I am not concerned and I never said I was concerned.....sorry I explained at the beginning I wanted to stay on topic. My question was NOT about LABOR ISSUES it was about her odd behavior!! We are still in first stages so why would I be concerned.....I do believe I mentioned that at the beginning as well.

What I said was her behavior is odd where she is clingy and is not like that way.....most bitches do want you around but settle in, she will not stay put and she is WAY to happy and bouncy to be in pain from labor.

Her due date was yesterday and last night she started with regular labor.....we are less then 12 hrs in...why is everyone saying go to the vet when that is NOT WHAT I AM ASKING HERE PEOPLE!!

Holy crap why is it so hard for people to not give their two cents on something that is being asked....why does everyone have to make it about something it is NOT.

NORMAL LABOR CAN LAST 24 HRS......AND NORMAL GESTATION ON LARGE BREED DOGS IS 63 TO 67 DAYS....YESTERDAY WAS 63 FOR HER!!.........we are not even into 7 hr!!! It is not the LABOR I AM ASKING ABOUT IT IS THE UNUSUAL BEHAVIOR IN THIS BITCH AND IF ANYONE HAS ONE LIKE HER!!!

Ya know...you may very well be the best breeder in the world, but when you snap at people who are geniunely trying to help and make them feel like idiots, you REALLY are surprised when no one else comments on your thread? Good lord. People are trying to help. I would even be thankful they give a damn enough about your dog to offer suggestions!

I have had one bitch like the one you're mentioning, she was pretty late, vets were also calling for xrays, but in the end, she whelped 11 healthy pups, without any xrays being done, I also gave calcium supplements when she started acting like she was starting to show labor signs. I also carried Oxytocin, thankfully never needed it. She ended up having her first puppy roughly 5 days past when I thought her due date should've been. Maybe you just slightly miscalculated her due date?

I had this problem once. She became super clingy and nervous. Maiden bitch who acted as if in labor on and off for 3 days. She started to look very tired, so i took her to the vet. The first pup was hugh and was stuck at the entrance of the canal. She went into surgery and 10 healthy puppies were delivered. Vet said that had i waited even 12 hours longer the pups would have started die. German shepherds are medium sized dogs. I've found that they mostly whelp fro 59 to 62 days.

Is she eating, drinking, peeing, pooping normal?? And what is her temperature?  Can you setup sleeping quarters for yourself in her whelp room and both of you get some sleep?  It would not hurt to give Tums and since you do not have a track record with this bitch if any one of the above is not normal I would be concerned.  Is she from a line of easy efficient whelpers? 

All the above mentioned symptoms COULD be normal for her but still worrisome.  Hang in there, she'll probably get started here;  really unless they have not kept you up for 3 days, had diaherra (SP) puked up their last meal they are not usually ready.  Maybe a slow steady walk around the property would help, short and take a towel with you.  Usually shortly before they start labor they do not want to eat (even my furious eaters usually don't eat;  so there might one indication.  Nan

PS:  MAMA dog's cocktail:  raw egg yolk, a dot of honey, dry milk if bitch can tolerate dairy if not use yogart added to some type of beef or chicken stock, shake well or mix well I should say, keep refrigerated unused portion.  Give her a cup of cocktail (room temperature) 3 or 4 times a day to help produce good milk source for puppies.  Good luck  NAN and if you do not make your own broth and you buy canned broth which is certainly more convenient; use low sodium.  N