Heart Disease at only 7yrs old - Page 1

I know there are many people that will get upset with this but I feel I need to write this to get personal experiances of others.  I have a 7 year old beautiful GSD  that we imported from Germany for breeding 4yrs ago. Since then we have fallen in love with this wonderful little girl!!! She had a couple of litters and with her last litter she started having problems so we decided to have her spayed. She will always remain with us as a part of our family. Last week I noticed her stomach was swollen and she seemed to have trouble breathing. I took her in to see our vet and right away she got her in for an xray. Her face told me the answer, she had tears in her eyes when she said I needed to think about putting her to sleep.   I wasnt ready to end her life that day without giving her a chance at life, so I took her to the Animal Hospital and they put her through a lot, blood work, IV"s Ultra sounds of the heart. Draining fluids from her chest cavity and stomach. They came back and said "she has heart disease"  and probably has had it her entire life. Her symptoms finally caught up with her, we to this day dont know how long she has left. SHe tires after being outside for a little while and is on many different meds each day. My vet said she is not in pain but if it comes to that point we would certainly not let her live that way. We all love her so much and this is so painful for all of us. Even though she was imported for breeding, she quickly became a huge part of our family.  What Im asking is, is heart disease hereditary?? She has had 2 litters and I feel it will be neccesary to contact prior puppy owners of hers. I cant see having people go through what we have been going through.  I havent been able to sleep at night worrying if there may be puppies out there could be carrying this gene.

My female is a daughter of the Zamp Vom Thermodos. THis is where I really don't want to hear negitive feedback. I really dont.    I have read info on Zamp that he died at the age of 7 or 8 but no real answers. Ive heard cancer and or heart disease. I would just really like to know if it was heart disease and if it were, why would any one continue to breed him knowing this. Im just asking questions. I also know it wont change things. I guess ive been overwhelmed with saddness and knowing my girl has such a short life ahead of her breaks my heart. My concern is we also have another female from these lines and hope and pray she doesnt have heart disease. I will certainly have an Ultrasound done on her heart as well as any testing possible to assure us that we have a healthy female to breed. I dont want to offend anyone with my comments about the lines and im sorry if I do. OUr girl has been a wonderful family companion and she is beautiful. SHe has had a great life and will love her even after she is gone.

I'm so sorry that you are going thru this.  How very sad and heartbreaking.  You ask good questions.  Heart disease is not somethig we want to add to the list of things we see showing up in our dogs. 
Deb

This is a little like a person having heart disease at 50.

Sorry to hear.

Thank you, I didnt want to offend anyone by my comments. I am a breeder and we have always took the honest road and tried to only provide the best available lines possible. I have decided not to breed my other female from the Zamp lines to avoid any possible health issues that may arrise. I can only hope and pray that the puppies that we sent home with these trusting families will come back clear of any issues. Which sadly I will be contacting to inform them of this. We vowed we would be honest with any situation and we will stand by that. Any thoughts on how to break this kind of news.  


My vet has researched as well as myself to see if this type of heart disease is hereditary. Neither her or myself came up with any solid answers.  Thank you for all of the support

So sorry to hear about your loss, seven years old is way too young.

I do wonder why you are surprised that she had heart disease,
did you check her heart?

Before I do a breeding I check eyes, hips, elbows, thyroid, heart, temperament,& DM.
Granted she was a German import, but what makes that a guarantee of a sound healthy speciment of the breed.

I just parted with a couple of my females that I was going to use for my breed program cause they had a close history of cancer, and also heart murmurs,and quirky strange behaviors, I don't want that in my breed program and there are plenty of other studs I can choose from.

Though I am mostly using my own studs that are closely related as I just can't trust most breeders out there, Oh well....call me a fool..........

Check this out on the OFA web-site, I guess they think better safe than sorry....

http://www.offa.org/results.html?page=2#results


"I would just really like to know if it was heart disease and if it were, why would any one continue to breed him knowing this. "" 

WHY Would anyone continue breeding a dog without health certifications from head to toe?

''Mirasmom"   Thank you for your reply

 I wanted to tell you, when we had our females imported, we put way to much trust in a "Breeder"  When our girl came to us we immediatly took her in to see our vet and had all the tests done other than an Ekko on her heart. All of her blood work came back perfect, hips and elbows (Excellent) Dm test was negitive and thyroid was cleared.  Honestly if I would of did the Ekko on her heart we probably would of found out. We were new to breeding and thought we could trust someone and as we found out we couldnt ( not just on this matter) 

 We limit honestly  who we trust when it comes to Breeders, we have learned a lot and will continue to be honest. That is why I will contact everyone that has one of her puppies. If there should be any issues we will stand behind them. I can tell you this, I will not EVER import again and I will be extremely careful if we ever bring another GSD into our breeding program. We have learned a terrible lesson. We thought we had all the testing done and were so happy until now.   Now we are the ones faced with loosing our female. SHe will live a fullfilled life as long as she has left.

I'm sorry about your 2 females you had to let go, I would do the same. We truely do take a great deal of pride in our breeding program, that's why when we thought we did everything right  it wasnt enough. THe thought of someone else having to go through this breaks my heart and that's why our other female that is from the Zamp line will not be used for breeding, I dont trust the lines eventhough she too was cleared of any health issues. It's not worth the stress of the waiting game to see if other health issues arrise.  

Going through this made me want to give up on Breeding but I love this to much and will definetly be more aware of the lines we choose from.  Thanks again for the reply

"Granted she was a German import, but what makes that a guarantee of a sound healthy speciment of the breed."

Irrespective of origin, a hereditary disease can only be checked if there is an established and expected practice of clearance. There must be a momentum by expectation or rule for control of that disease.

Without it, if only one or two dogs in the pedigree have clearance against it, there is no check German or not.

I think just HD and ED have reached such a momentum, even in the USA and only if one cares enough to search OFA records.  My American dogs have good HD and ED background.

heart problems may  or may not  be coming from zamp , remember there is a mother lines, i will say i know of Bloat coming from the Zamp lines that i can say and also from Negus lines ( zamp son ), i for sure will not  use those lines , even if it does not pop up all the time it still there. there is another big dog  from germany,i wont use his lines as i know of too many health problems.

  
 "trixx"
             Thanks for the info, I understand that there's the mother's side also. I guess from what I heard Zamp died very young and there isent anything that I could find on how he died. I have heard it was either heart disease or cancer. That's why I'm asking.  I will never use those lines again. In fact we have another female from the Zamp line and she has been cleared of all health issues but honestly, I won't take any chances. I don't trust that possibly in the future some underlying illness will pop up. Even imported I never trusted that everytthing was 100% with their health. I thought I had every test done on our girls that I needed to. Somehow this issue got past even my vet which really makes me upset. I am heart broken that I now have to contact the puppy buyers from her litter. Thank goodness there are only 9 total puppies. If anything should arrise with any other these puppies, we will stand behind them. We thought we did all the right things and trusted the wrong person when we started breeding, from this point on we will stick with our own. My guard is now up. We have been told this is a cut throat buisness and we have vowed not to get into the mix of it, and I will not. I just wish the best for every breeder out there that sticks to honesty and   stands behind the puppies and families should something happen. 



 My reason for my initial post was to find out if anyone knew how Zamp passed, he was a beautiful male. I just wish I knew. I guess it really doesnt matter anymore. We cant change what is going on now, we just need to move on and love our girl as long as she is with us  




 

sadandconfused- please do not give up on breeding. Your honesty is what is needed in this breed, as is your dedication and your saying the buck stops here, when you found you had a problem. Your quest for answers shows you are trying to do the right thing. Kudos to you! I am so sorry to hear about your girl, but its nice to know she will always have a home with you, instead of being shipped out because she is no longer breedable. It is honorable of you to contact your puppy buyers.

I was blindsided when I found out my boy, CJ,  had bad elbows, and the breeder knew that 3 of his siblings had bad elbows, yet he never let me know. When I called them because I heard CJ clicking when he walked, and asked about the rest of the litter, it was like pulling teeth to get the info. In fact, even though the 3 siblings were living there ( kept back for show, as CJ was supposed to be shown, as well) I was told they didnt know if the elbows on the siblings were bad... Hello? How do you live with dogs and not know if they have bad elbows????? It was hard to get them to admit the other siblings had bad elbows, but they finally did. This breed needs more like you, who will be proactive for your puppy buyers. If CJ's breeder was like that, I could have caught the problem before he developed arthritis and DJD.

I salute you!


Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry (a health registry for registered German Shepherds)
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group http://www.mzjf.info/hgate Heaven's Gate