Linebreeding on Norbo Ben Ju? - Page 1

Hi all, I've read that this was a legendary dog and have seen videos of him working and yet I've read many posts of people stating that they wouldn't linebreed on him so I'm wondering why that is? I'm yet to get an answer on this.

You can see the list of dogs that were linebred on Norbo - http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=409047&p=reverse-linebreeding 
I don't think any linebred dog on Norbo achieved high titles / work certifications.

I've only seen a 2 dogs that have been linebred on Norbo, I didn't really care for their drive levels they were mainly high in prey with little defense. Over all nice temperaments.
But like I said, I've only seen 2 so should talk with one of the breeders that has done a line breeding on Norbo you can easily find from the lisit.

I've done line breeding on Norbo,3-4 with two females. I'd say the prey drive in some were medium, the defense medium to high. Very level headed and good temperaments. One female out of that breeding is an apprehension dog with LE. These dogs have been very biddable, and tend to be aloof to strangers, with civil aggression in protection. Best for PP and LE and some are family dogs. Not crazy enough prey for high achievement in sport, but certainly capable of titling. However, a single dog in a pedigree cannot be responsible for the virtues and faults in a dog. I love the structure in the offspring from the breeding...very dry and wiry, athletic. Three that I have tested and started training in herding have tremendous natural ability. They have true gsd attributes. I would say, the Norbo line- bred dogs from my breedings would not be TOP sport dogs.

Thank you for the replies CPHudson and Joanro. My thoughts were that people were haphazardly breeding two dogs with Norbo in the pedigree and expecting to produce other Norbos. As with everything I was hoping to get a fuller perspective on the matter and hoping to hear from people that linebred on Norbo successfully, thank you Joanro for coming forth. Any and all opinions are welcome, please feel free to contribute your opinion based on experience. 

MightyZeus,
Norbo was a great dog.
"Legendary" is a marketing tool.

If you want more info on why some people would tell you to stay away from this type of breeding I would contact GSDPack. She has a lot of excellent info from "the old country."
Without going too far in to it, there are some health concerns cropping up in some of Norbo's grandchildren. Linebreeding could exasperate this issue.

Joanro,
Excellent description of your breedings, which in turn is really an excellent description of the Czech GSD in general. Very good post! Lack of high prey is the reason you see many breeders in Czech and Slovakia going to West German working lines in combination with their Czech lines. Some these pairings are producing excellent all-around dogs.

I've H/E tested seven of 3-4 Norbo- cross offspring, and hips were: five GOOD, two FAIR, elbows: all seven NORMAL. ALL three of my Norbo grand kids have NORMAL elbows, hips: two GOOD, one FAIR. Three more (including sire of the 3-4 cross litters) Norbo descendants have GOOD hips, NORMAL elbows. So that's thirteen out of thirteen Norbo descendants of mine have healthy H/E. Males all have TWO descended testicles, all have full dentition, good pigment, five toes front, usually only four back toes :-) By the way, I'm raising a female from my first WGWL x Norbo line-bred litter. Seven months old and she is a clone of the mother. You would never know, looking at her, that the sire had any influence (sire is the WGWL), except prey drive coming out her ears and steel trap grip. She likes to hang out on the porch, not destructive or crazy with excess drive. Has natural retrieve, energetic, determined hunt drive. Easy to train, fearless but not reckless, notices ANY little change or difference and will not hesitate to investigate it. She was climbing steep open stairs going nine feet up before I could stop her since seven weeks old. Very short, close, tight and hard coat. Tight feet like a doberman, leggy right now, stands UP on her feet, straight tight back, DEEP set eyes with tight eye lids, high ear set, and high tail carriage with unfortunate curl on very end. When she's relaxed,the tail is down, but when in action- tail up. That's the only thing I don't care for in this pup, but her temperament, character and structure overrides that minor (to me) flaw. An old Smooth Fox Terrier fancier told me a long time ago, " if have to go all the way to the tail to find something wrong with a dog, you've got a pretty good dog! "

"Linebreeding could exasperate this issue."

That should read, "Linebreeding could exacerbate this issue." Not exasperate.

Appreciate your contribution good people. Norbo is only half of the equation, good to know that it could be done right when a fitting dam is bred to Norbo. OGBS, appreciate your contribution. I was wondering whether you could state the type of health issues that could arise from linebreeding Norbo. Or maybe the type of dam to steer away from to avoid health problems. Joanro could you post some pictures please, your girl sounds godly.

I see as....great dog to have in a pedigree, because of stability and nerve, and biddability, and then I want to see balance on the other side of pedigree.One of the great things about Norbo (to me) is his ability to mix with many types of dogs and the result is a positive. He is not a dog that I like for linebreeding on. Not a knock on Norbo just wont work for me....but this is also the case for Grim. Norbo can also help produce large dogs and short upper arms. I do think he is a good dog to mix with west lines especially with great prey drive as he gives the nervebase to absorb the drives and the dog stays clearheaded....of course their are exceptions to every rule but this is in general.

Back problems are cropping up in some of the grandchildren.
(Please note: I said, "some", not "all".)
Again, though, I would defer to GSDPack.
She will be able to give you better info and be much more helpful to you than I.
PM her. She will get back (no pun intended) to you.