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by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 13:07
Standard says that pastern is approximately 1/3rd of the length of arm. Is it BD/AB= 1/3, or BC/AB=1/3 ?
by Hundmutter on 09 July 2012 - 14:07
Hiya Ibrahim
As I've always understood it, its 1/3 distance from wrist to elbow - so 'B' to 'A'.
If you think about it, this is a measurement equal to the corresponding lengths of pastern and forearm on the dog whose
photo with excellent 23 degree pasterns you put up on the 'mother thread'.
It doesn't make much sense to count the pastern as part of the forearm; that would be like including the hock & rear
pastern in with the thigh.
I think some people who breed bigger or shorter legged 'versions' of the GSD would like it to be 'D' to 'A', but to my mind that looks really unbalanced.
Expect someone will disagree with me though. LoL
As I've always understood it, its 1/3 distance from wrist to elbow - so 'B' to 'A'.
If you think about it, this is a measurement equal to the corresponding lengths of pastern and forearm on the dog whose
photo with excellent 23 degree pasterns you put up on the 'mother thread'.
It doesn't make much sense to count the pastern as part of the forearm; that would be like including the hock & rear
pastern in with the thigh.
I think some people who breed bigger or shorter legged 'versions' of the GSD would like it to be 'D' to 'A', but to my mind that looks really unbalanced.
Expect someone will disagree with me though. LoL
by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 14:07
I agree Hundmutter that the arm is from A to B and it does not include the pastern which is from B to C.
But my original question remains standing, what is the pastern length the standard talks about, is it BC (pastern bone/inclined distance), or is it BD (the vertical distance)?
Is BC/AB = 1/3 or
Is BD/AB = 1/3 ????
But my original question remains standing, what is the pastern length the standard talks about, is it BC (pastern bone/inclined distance), or is it BD (the vertical distance)?
Is BC/AB = 1/3 or
Is BD/AB = 1/3 ????
by EuroShepherd on 09 July 2012 - 15:07
Ibrahim, thank you for the compliment on the other thread :)
These exact measurements, angles, etc. isn't my forte, though I do understand them. You do a very good job when it comes to mapping out the lengths and angles on pics of dogs Ibrahim.
Without looking at my books (because they're buried in boxes right now) I'm just going to have to take a guess at it.
Personally I THINK that it is the length of the pastern bone which is 1/3 the length of the fore arm, so BC/AB.
When I visualize BD/AB it seems to me that the pastern is too short and more likely to cause a pastern that is too upright (like that yellow labrador in my post on the other thread) and has less "spring" power.
by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 15:07
Thanks EuroShepherd, just for clarification the line BD is imaginary and not the pastern bone itself, it represents the vertical measurement of the pastern, BC is the bone (as you said) and BC measurement represents the actual bone length.
I understand what you're saying and your answer is logical, but I would like to know what other experienced have to say. And by the way I will incorporate this 1/3rd in the drawings on the other thread. Thanks again.
Ibrahim
I understand what you're saying and your answer is logical, but I would like to know what other experienced have to say. And by the way I will incorporate this 1/3rd in the drawings on the other thread. Thanks again.
Ibrahim
by Nans gsd on 09 July 2012 - 16:07
BC/AD and that is only approximate; will vary with different GSD's and different breeds. Personally I think that is a little long for the GSD's and will tend to get a weaker pastern the longer they are.
With that said I do not want them too short either as then they can roll over like some dogs I have seen. So again that l/3 is only a guideline so people and judges have a visual measurement. Nan
With that said I do not want them too short either as then they can roll over like some dogs I have seen. So again that l/3 is only a guideline so people and judges have a visual measurement. Nan
by susie on 09 July 2012 - 18:07
I tend to say BC, but it doesn´t seem to be written down anywhere, the angle has to be between 20 to 22 degrees.
Kind regards,
Susie
Kind regards,
Susie
by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 18:07
Ok, the difference isn't huge between both the assumptions but it is important to know which one is the correct, I will demonstrate the difference , for a 65 cm high at withers dog and 47% deep chest the measurement from elbow to ground is 34.45 cms (53%). If the standard means by pastern length (BC) then BC= 8.7 cms and BD = 8.1 cm and arm = 26.4 cms. The 8.7 cms (BC) = 1/3rd the 26.4 cms (arm).
But if the standard means by the pastern length (BD) then BC = 9.3 cms and BD = 8.6 cms and arm = 25.8 cms. The 8.6 cms (BD) = 1/3rd the 25.8 cms (arm).
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But if the standard means by the pastern length (BD) then BC = 9.3 cms and BD = 8.6 cms and arm = 25.8 cms. The 8.6 cms (BD) = 1/3rd the 25.8 cms (arm).
by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 19:07
Drawing is now correct
by Ibrahim on 09 July 2012 - 19:07
I have checked all my dogs and neither of them qualifies the 1/3 rd whether it is the BC or the BD, they all have shorter pasterns than what the standard calls for.
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