AKC Papers important? - Page 1

There is local German Shepherd puppies for sale. Mom is perfect looking-came from popular kennel and has all papers and hips OFA certified

Dad is breathtaking and has excellent temperment!  His papers were lost but he is clearly a pure bred GSD and his hips are OFA certified

How important is paperwork on dad really?  I dont plant on breeding or doing competition, just family companion.
Thanks

Are you sure that the sire is really registered?  That seems weird to me that he would have OFA numbers but no papers? Did you check OFA to actually verify the results on both parents? You can do that online yourself if you have the name of sire and dam. It's free.

I am only being skeptical because a reputable breeder only breeds registered dogs (with papers).

I would, personally, steer clear of these puppies.  Better to be safe than sorry and go with papered dogs with verified health checks from reputable breeders.  Why risk it?

A reputable breeder usually has a health guarantee and you would want that even if your puppy will just be a family companion and not a showdog. I have never heard of a reputable breeder breeding dogs without papers.

Good luck!!

Sara

Get copies of the sire's paperwork, not that hard! If the dog has a tattoo, find the original registry, DNA the dog and sens it to the original registry. Then when you get the copies, register with AKC....I would not purchase a puppy without paperwor, I would take one for free or $80  as a companion, not a chance I would pay full price for a "Mutt"....

It is entirely possible to have an OFA certification on an unregistered dog, or even a mixed-breed dog.  Take a look at some of the 'breeds' the OFA has records for-- Hangin Tree Cowdog? 

That said, I do agree with Sara's suggestion that you confirm the OFA status of both parents, because even a family companion benefits from having good hips.  I suspect that the owner of the dam isn't wouldn't consider themselves to be a 'breeder' per se, but rather is just someone who bought a well-bred female from a breeder and decided it would be nice to have puppies from Gretchen, and they could make a little extra money on the side, too.  Not exactly the type of breeding I think should be encouraged, but not a whole lot different than what a lot of people on this very board do--it is the type of breeding that too often ends up with the dogs going to a shelter when they're two or three years old, unfortunately. So if the pups are healthy, and the OP can meet both parents to see for themselves that they both have good temperaments, then these pups will do just as well as any other--but RUN AWAY, do not walk, if owner of the litter tells you that you can't meet the parents because 'they don't like strangers', or if they do let you see them but one or both behaves aggressively or is fearful, and don't buy some story about either parent 'just being protective of the pups' to excuse any behavior.  The parents might be indifferent to you, or eye you up suspiciously initially but relax when they see the owners accept your presence, and either of those is OK, as is both parents being friendly and sociable with you. The puppy should be at least 8 weeks old before it leaves it's brothers and sisters and comes home with you, too.

Todd,  I just read some of your previous posts.  It appears you have two showline dogs and one is an intact female that you do ScH with through a ScH club. I am just curious why someone like you would want an unregistered dog?  I don't mean that too sound weird!! Sorry, that didn't come out right!!  But, you don't fit the profile of someone who would buy an unregistered dog as a "pet". Wait...that didn't come out right either!!!

Surely, your ScH club could help you find an appropriate puppy!!  Or, did you commit the cardinal sin......accidentally fall in love with a backyard pup!  Your heart is telling you..buy the pup..and your mind says..no, don't do it!! LOL  Been there!!  

But, I still wouldn't risk it for the health guarantee alone and the fact someone is breeding dogs who don't have papers..yikes! 

Well, good luck in whatever you decide but try to do as much research on the dogs in question that you can!!! 

Take Care,
Sara

Eh, health guarantee. That's something I have no use for--BUT I do expect the breeder to have done all of the work correctly in advance of breeding the litter, and be able to show me that the dogs free of hip & elbow dysplasia, and now that there's a DM test available, be able to tell me what the status of the parents are for that, too. They should be able to tell me that neither parent has EPI or perianal fistulas, and that they have not shown any evidence of allergies to *anything*; and hopefully they'll be able to tell me all of that info about the siblings of the parent dogs, and the dogs behind the parent dogs (or tell me where I can find that info).  But beyond those things, and the standard things one does to raise a healthy litter, what can the breeder REALLY 'guarantee'?  They can't ensure that the pup I get isn't dysplastic, because they have no control over that beyond using certified-free breeding stock; they can't guarantee much of anything save for the few that can be controlled by only breeding animals that are free of those problems...and there's a limited number of such things found in this breed. 

If the breeder has done all that I've outlined above, I'm willing to pay a fair price for a living creature that will never be perfect by the very nature of it being a living thing. Beyond that, I expect no guarantees from the breeder, and I will *never* pay several thousand dollars for any living thing that I can't eat it all else fails...so the lack of a health guarantee on a puppy that is being sold for less than $500 is of no consequence in my book.

Hexe, I agree about guarantees but, at least, a breeder could give a refund or provide another pup if a major issue develops.

Plus, I have never seen a breeder who health tests all their dogs with OFA and even does DM but does not have papers for them!!

But, I haven't been out in the GSD world as long as others so, perhaps, these breeders exist!! hahahaha

Sara

Funny that this topic came up. I was actually going to ask something very similar. Two of my three are registered. My third is registerable but in the period of time in which my husband bought her and got her home he managed to misplace all of her information. Every last bit of it. Two GSDs I had before te ones I have now were not registered, one was a rescue and the other came from Parent's who had OFA passing hips but the breeder decided not to register their final litter since their buyers were people looking for companion dogs not anything else. They had had a few litters prior and had registered them. True story? Who knows. He turned out to be an awesome and healthy dog. We never bred him and he was neutered and lived a happy life with us until he died at 9. As time goes on, I learn a few things. Mainly that registered does not always equal reputable and non registered doesn't always mean junk. Personally I WOULD buy a companion dog that was not registered as long as the parents had had their hips xrayed and recieved an acceptable score and if the parents had been tested for DM. At the same time why go through all of that trouble and not register the litter??? Up until I bought Janna my dogs were merely family companions. I had no other plans for them so for me papers were just that. Papers. Because I have plans for JJ I bought a registered dog (if I can ever get her registration info, but that's another thread). I don't know. I understand the importance of registration but at the same time they are no more of a guarantee of a healthy dog than no papers are so it's a crapshoot no matter how you look at it. Most important is to go into a purchase informed and know what you want and what questions to ask.

Great responses thanks to all of you.  Smiley let me break it down a little further.  I have two GSDs.  My male is an old man at 9.  My female is intact and almost 2.  Shes an import with an impressive pedigree-that cost me $2500, however she is not striking in her looks, very small 52lbs, and weak nerves HENCE I WOULD NOT BE INTERESTED IN BREEDING HER. 
We love her anyway and she loves us and has a great life.

I know the owners of the sire and dam who are thinking of breeding and they asks me to ask my "GSD friends" lol. I no longer attend my local Schutzhund Club but do speak with the memebers from time to time.


The male GSD was $500 and purchased from a local pet shop which had papers that were lost-IRONICALLY he is perfect.  85lbs big blocky head, strong nerves, never never nasty or aggresive and perfectly healthy. Dont think AKC papers though

The female GSD was 2K a little more intimadating around her master but the pretiest female show line I've ever seen.  If only this guy joined a Schutzhund club and got invloved with conformation shows this would be a top dog. 

I would never breed my bitch because unfortunetely she lacks what both these dogs dont.

Maybe the female would be better off getting someone to stud out there dog with papers.  Or maybe not breed at all. 

If I knew how to add a photo I would post her photo.

What do you guys think of her?  These are the best pics I could get right now.