Experiences from breeding showlines with working lines - Page 4

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when we talk about mixing the two sh/wk are we talking about color? the reason why I say this is because their are tons of V-rated KKL1 working dogs that have drive structure looks and hardness. So are we trying to get dogs with the red and black saddle? Just wondering.

cphudson, to clarify: We mentioned Hutch becasue he is out of my female Chuckie. Hutch is a nice dog, and so is his brother Hudson. If memory serves correctly, both were imported to the U.S. and I would encourage any WL-breeder to use them as stud. Hudson stayed with Gary Hanrahan for a while and he was not an easy dog to handle. His owner and keeper had their hands full with him. Hutch is different, also a great family companion. Both went to the BSP in Germany. Their full younger sister (repeat breeding) Iffy von der Kalten Hardt also went to the BSP with her co-owner.
My Chuckie produced 3 offspring that participated in the BSP and lots of V-rated sons and daughters. That IMO makes her an extremely valuable female. That is why Preston mentions her too (thanks Preston).
It is important to have a great female line, regardless of workinglines or showlines! As a matter of fact, no kennel will ever be successful without top producing females.
Gustav, you are right. The Dexel family have been our friends and mentors for many years. We think like them and have the same philosophy. Ajax was around when Gerd was a baby. It was Gerd's father Richard who mentored us first and even taught Joe how to best tattoo puppies and me how to evaluate. He has passed away a couple of years ago and I still miss his valuable opinions.
Gerd is just the best dog person around. He has campaigned dogs to World Sieger (Gina vom Aquamarin) and Vice World Sieger (Timo vom Berrekasten) in the show world and turns around and competes at the Schutzhund field. He went to the LGA but missed the qualification for the BSP by a few points. His wife Petra made it, though and competed at the BSP. The year my Chuckie was bred, Gerd had her for a few weeks. A couple of days after she was bred he spontaneously decided to compete with her at  a SchH trophy tournament and they won it, beating other breeds like Malinois as well. Judge was Heiko Grube.
These are the people who should be looked up to, as they are truly versatile and living proof that it is possible to "play" both sides.
For the people who think that a wellbred workingline is so much different than a showline (not the overangulated ones), please look at my homebred dogs out of my Chuckie, not much of a difference. Our black male Onyx even beat a couple of showlines in the show ring. Our female Uschi was shown recently in Germany and also did not end up last in her class. The big difference is still that the ratio of well structured puppies in workingline breedings is very low while the showline breeders almost always have great prospects in their litters. As a breeder in Germany calls it: the showlines are (genetically) "bred through" or "refined" (which means their phenotype is so established that there are no more guessing games). And to clarify: I am not talking about drives and temperament here, only "looks".

I know which set of characteristics I'd rather be playing guessing games with.

You and me , both, Daryl. I " guess" it all depends on what a person considers what " well structured" is. To me, well structured is a dog that doesn't look like he has weights hanging from his testicles. He stands UP, not down, in the rear.

"You and me , both, Daryl. I " guess" it all depends on what a person considers what " well structured" is. To me, well structured is a dog that doesn't look like he has weights hanging from his testicles. He stands UP, not down, in the rear."

LOL, again, I agree. :)

Hey darylehret, I knew this would draw comments like yours. And that is why I tried to emphasize on structure by using words like phenotype and looks. It is ok though to disagree. Our breed would really be in trouble if we all had the same (tunnel) vision. Have a great weekend and cheers.

Hi Chris,

Some talk the talk, some walk the walk.

Are you going to Statesville?

Hi Blitzen, unfortunately not. I have no dog prepared to be shown and no babysitter for my son. If it was closer... Are you going?

My almost 2 year old female is a SL/WL. Sire is a KKl1 Sch3 showline. I don't know much about the mix, but my girl is a great dog and full of P&V. She keeps me on my toes.