___Bloodlines - Hardness and Aggression___ - Page 6

I have dogs loaded In prey especially the female , she is awesome to work with because of her exstreme prey she Will work and work without rewards for long times that is good about many dogs with high prey . She Will work for anything even a litle stick or even a leaf she is very driven,but calm In the house maybe to calm for my opinion , she is not at All nervy but has strong nerves and I Can bring her anywhere even to the kindergarden She is vocal , and we Can not have small animals In the house because she Will go balistic. She Does have trouble concentrating because of her exstreme prey and she is not a thinker she act frist and thinks after. The male I have are more balanced between the drives and hé learns faster than her and are more civil to, he is my favorite and love him to death hé is also vocal but are not so prey driven A's her. The pup seems very prey driven and hé Will stand over a leaf i tense of it moving like a border collie with their sheep.

to answer your question sable , I like a dog to be able to work from low drive and being able to shift , were many dogs todayare A over the top neurotic allday , and dont have the  ability to calm down , or
B they need to be whipped and hyped up before able to work

my dogs , generally speaking are calm and relaxed around the house , social , great with kids and other (small) dogs , where I had one Ajax son that was social , but would kill any animal coming near him , but I must say that he was sold as a puppy and returned to me at 14 months all screwed up

this is a clip a shared before of me and one of my dogs , but shows how I like a dog to work , dog relaxed , helper passive , and as soon as helper makes a move or threatning sound , the dog responds , also I dont need commands to send the dog ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpjvHIcnBIA&list=UU1cHvGPkZKo1OLvA6Aq1w_g&index=39&feature=plcp 

so , no whining dogs here

some young females , showing first or second time biting ,  not hectic no whips or any other motivators , and having strong hard grips and giving fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbCGlcVZlY&list=UU1cHvGPkZKo1OLvA6Aq1w_g&index=1&feature=plcp 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QhsqHvIMqQ&list=UU1cHvGPkZKo1OLvA6Aq1w_g&index=6&feature=plcp 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObJNpPZpwmo&feature=autoplay&list=UU1cHvGPkZKo1OLvA6Aq1w_g&lf=plcp&playnext=1 

Thanks so much guys, I'm loving this thread. :)

Duke, would you send me your website address in a PM?

About the whining in GSDs, many probably confuse stress for drive, a whiny and hectic dog is not the same as a big motor for work, a good GSD should be able to work as long as you want but also be able to relax as one very experienced breeded put it. The demand for faster and more explosive dog have created some dogs which is quicker  to react and softer, more like a border collie. These type of dogs are not so strongnerved and stable and hence has a lower treshhold for training that creates stress and frustration. In former times I guess rewarding with balls and toys was to not so common,  much expectations in the dog leads to arousal, which is good and gives some extra energy in a performance but are still controllable, but to much expectations, arousal and stimulation of the dog can lead to the other side of the coin which is the negative frustartion and stress. Some dogs can be stimulated much with no whining, others have a lower treshold for this, so the dogs inborn motivation and how we balance the dogs expectations and arousal in training is important for avoiding whining.

Anyway, if talking with people that been involved long in the breed they say whining was less common in former times, probably a combinatioan of trrainingmethods and certain breeders favouring a more hyper and flashy dog. On the other hand, the ideal GSD may no t be the one that is to calm and strongnerved to be able to do sport decent, but differentlines could add different thing, a lively dog with great preydrive may be used to a dog/line that is more stable but lack some temperamnet and preydrive.

Again Johann, a good post!!

This is a very good thread.  Alot of the replys are well thought out!  Thanks

I am not as knowledgeable about shepherds as many of the people participating in the forums but in my opinion my last shepherd was what a shepherd should be.

His grandfather was Aran z Vlci Farmy who was a son of Marko ze Zlataku . Jovey was 3/4 czech and 1/4 German. He was aloof when strangers approached but once he realized they were ok he would give a sniff and let them pet him. He was guardy when people came onto our property but as soon as I told him to get his toy he would quiet down, sniff the guests and then hope they might play with him. On one occassion a friend who he had never met came to our house and thought it would be fun to pretend to be a bad guy. Jovey growled and immediately ran to me looking for direction. he did not make the decision on his own but looked to me for quidance.

He was a 100lb dark sable intact guy who turned heads, he had an amazing prey drive, great courage, trainablility and could out do any retreiver in the water. He had a sound temperment without any issues and a very strong athletic body.  He was great with kids, gentle with other animals (our cats might disagree  :) )  including other dogs.
I trusted him completely and knew he would give his life for me without a thought.

Juno 11


FYI..In Ontario the pitbull has been banned so many of them have been put down because of some dogs who were aggressive through training and/or breeding. Now that this door has been opened other breeds could be added to the list. 

What are some kennels/breeders you guys would recommend checking into for hardness and fight drive?