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by Konotashi on 11 December 2011 - 08:12
I've seen that a few times on this forum. I'm not very knowledgeable in the way of pedigrees, but what are some things you look for regarding the overall quality of a pedigree?
by Sunsilver on 11 December 2011 - 13:12
You look to see if the dogs in the pedigree:
1) Are titled (Sch 1,2 or 3, or equivalent)
2) Have their koer rating (Kkl 1 or 2) meaning they have been breed-surveyed as worthy of being bred.
3) Have passed hip and elbow testing (German a1, a2, etc. or American OFA/Penn hip.
Other considerations would be the presence of VA or V rated dogs in the pedigree, meaining tthey had done well at either the German sieger show, or its equivalent in another country.
Last, but not least, I would look for the names of dogs that I personally think are great dogs.
As an example of a good pedigree, anyone who likes German showlines would just love the pedigree of this dog. Someone who's into working line dogs would look for working titles on the dogs rather than the V and VA ratings (Working dogs never receive V or VA placings at sieger shows.)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=119824
You need to click on the individual dog to see the details: koerclasse rating, schutzhund degrees, etc.
1) Are titled (Sch 1,2 or 3, or equivalent)
2) Have their koer rating (Kkl 1 or 2) meaning they have been breed-surveyed as worthy of being bred.
3) Have passed hip and elbow testing (German a1, a2, etc. or American OFA/Penn hip.
Other considerations would be the presence of VA or V rated dogs in the pedigree, meaining tthey had done well at either the German sieger show, or its equivalent in another country.
Last, but not least, I would look for the names of dogs that I personally think are great dogs.
As an example of a good pedigree, anyone who likes German showlines would just love the pedigree of this dog. Someone who's into working line dogs would look for working titles on the dogs rather than the V and VA ratings (Working dogs never receive V or VA placings at sieger shows.)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=119824
You need to click on the individual dog to see the details: koerclasse rating, schutzhund degrees, etc.
by darylehret on 11 December 2011 - 16:12
My personal methods and criteria are complicated (and IIMO less superficial), but I'll emphasize a couple pretty important poiints.
One is cautioning toward your "gaps" of personal knowledge and experience in the pedigree's structure, fractions of ancestry you lack familiarity with. Of course, you have to start somewhere. Until you have had the opportunity to raise and train with specimens of a particular line, you make your entry based on ALL the testimony and evidence (trial results, videos, health cert's) you can find available. When you're ready, it's more efficient to gain familiarity with a line from raising a pup, rather than a trained adult. You still might not be entirely clear which parent contributor is responsible for what, until you get a second sampling of semi-related blood for comparison.
Also, rather than a randomly tossed salad of famous individual ancestors, there are various bloodline combinations that are known to have "nicked" particularly well together. These breed-combos can have an entity unto themselves, a telling tale that breathes life into the pedigree.
One is cautioning toward your "gaps" of personal knowledge and experience in the pedigree's structure, fractions of ancestry you lack familiarity with. Of course, you have to start somewhere. Until you have had the opportunity to raise and train with specimens of a particular line, you make your entry based on ALL the testimony and evidence (trial results, videos, health cert's) you can find available. When you're ready, it's more efficient to gain familiarity with a line from raising a pup, rather than a trained adult. You still might not be entirely clear which parent contributor is responsible for what, until you get a second sampling of semi-related blood for comparison.
Also, rather than a randomly tossed salad of famous individual ancestors, there are various bloodline combinations that are known to have "nicked" particularly well together. These breed-combos can have an entity unto themselves, a telling tale that breathes life into the pedigree.
by shri on 11 December 2011 - 16:12
Hello nice reply by darylehert,yes there are some combinations of bloodlines that have created wonders for eg Bax X Hill,Ursus X Esko,Quantum X Esko could you please add up on some more for our knowledge.These knowledgeable breeders have always tried to mix and match the lines to counteract the weakness and strengthen the virtues of the breed.Would appreciate more replies and views in this thread.Thank you in anticipation for the inputs.
by Sunsilver on 11 December 2011 - 18:12
Darylehret, TY for a much more indepth reply! That's what makes breeding dogs the work of a lifetime, because you are always learning about what lines work/don't work with the dogs you have, and what attributes different lines can bring to the table.
by windwalker18 on 12 December 2011 - 06:12
My 1st experience with pedigrees was in US Show lines back in the early 80's. Going to shows, reading the GSD Review from cover to cover reading the pedigrees of any dogs I especially liked. Purchased the Red Book which was put out after the Futurities and National. It took years til I found which dogs and combinations of dogs seemed to produce the kind of pups that I liked. (Included in this study were OFA certifications, obedience degrees etc.)
When I started to look more at working line import lines I did the same thing. workingdog.eu is a great site as well as this one for researching pedigrees. Look at what dogs are being bred watch for the type you like, as they said above, look for "V" rated dogs where possible, for Schutzhund degrees on BOTH sides of the pedigree... for hip certifications...for longevity... TALK to breeders whenever you can to gently pick their brains on what they are breeding and why. Listen for objective calm reviews of dogs in question... not someone who looks to slam any dog who is not in their personal pedigrees or breeding plans.
One trait that to me is a blazing must have is dogs/lines who are "clear headed". As well as dogs who have titles and such. You will be living with your dog more time than you'll have them on a training field. I'm so glad I held out for that trait as well as the rest. Whatever you want to do with your dog you'll want one who can stand the pressure of training, of travel, of a helper pushing him on his bite work. (and one who loves to chill out laying across the foot of the bed as well... lol)
When I started to look more at working line import lines I did the same thing. workingdog.eu is a great site as well as this one for researching pedigrees. Look at what dogs are being bred watch for the type you like, as they said above, look for "V" rated dogs where possible, for Schutzhund degrees on BOTH sides of the pedigree... for hip certifications...for longevity... TALK to breeders whenever you can to gently pick their brains on what they are breeding and why. Listen for objective calm reviews of dogs in question... not someone who looks to slam any dog who is not in their personal pedigrees or breeding plans.
One trait that to me is a blazing must have is dogs/lines who are "clear headed". As well as dogs who have titles and such. You will be living with your dog more time than you'll have them on a training field. I'm so glad I held out for that trait as well as the rest. Whatever you want to do with your dog you'll want one who can stand the pressure of training, of travel, of a helper pushing him on his bite work. (and one who loves to chill out laying across the foot of the bed as well... lol)
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