To those familiar with working dog lines: check this pedigree please? - Page 2

I would not line breed on the combination of Sven/Sindy and their offspring. It is a fact that this combination produced questionable hips and questionable temperament.

I would not breed this combination with any other pure east german line, but outcross to a mediore west german line dog with great willingness to please and work, evenly balanced in temperament; basically to an "easy go'er".

Oh my, another Sven/Sindy Schaferliesel post - which always leads to the notorious Boban, the beautiful but flawed.

Yes, Pharaoh is a Sven grandson but the mother was Peddy Grafental, Steve Lino's dog and she was one of his favorites.  Also, Pharaoh is not linebred on Sven, once is enough

Yes, Pharaoh was at the very limits of my ability.  He will be 4 years old next week and I am so glad that I hung in there and did not give up.  He now has some of that wonderful quality called biddability that was lacking in his early years.  His character is very stable and loyal.

I did start him in Schutzhund and the trainer was very pleased.  He is strong in defense and lots of prey drive.  I had to have someone stand behind me to back me up holding the leash.  He is a big boy and very, very strong and determined.  A better handler would probably have no problem.

Pharaoh's pedigree
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=551839

I am going into this because of the second thread referred to above in Hexe's post.

Michele

Michele, its not Sven by itself. Its the Sindy vom Schaferliesel/Sven combination that caused problems. Even Sindy alone is fine.

There are many dogs out there that are linebred on Sven and they are ok. But there are dogs as well out there that are grandkids of that combo coming down over the von Grauen von Mohnstab line that have questionable temperament. If one adds a linebreeding on that combo, it can go either well or absolutely backfire on ya. And then what? Lots of blame, tears and dissappointment. So its better to stay away from that option.

The dogs themself are beautiful and its tempting to want to breed them, just not together. I would not even attempt a linebreeding on Sven alone with having Sven/Sindy on the top or bottom.

elkoor -- what exactly do you mean by questionable temperament? aggressive? too defensive? fearful? 
 

You are so right Sina.  Sven once is enough.  I have heard that Don Clausberg (Pharaoh's paternal grandfather) was a tough dog as well.

Pharaoh surely got a good dose of hard headedness from somewhere. He is also even tempered and very social.  But, he is like a fine wine-improves with age, at about 3 1/2 years precisely the tide turned. 

With Boban, questionable temperament was predictability and perhaps sudden anger-don't turn your back on him.  Kind of like a "borderline" human.  I don't know this personally, but from people who did have sad firsthand experience.  I also have spoken to people who have male offspring of Boban, not beginner dogs! 

Did it come from Sven or Sindy Schaferliesel?  Who knows.

Poor Boban, he has had so many different homes. I think he is still being bred in Canada. Notice that he did not do well in schutzhund-I can imagine his obedience was a problem.  I don't know what his scores were as far as he did get, just guessing.

You can't go wrong taking elkoor's advice when it comes to DDR dogs minro.

Good luck whatever you do,
Michele

I am not familiar with the dogs or the lines, but, the two threads linked above are worthless.
The second one has no info.
The first one is 15 pages long.
If you remove the posts by DDR-DSH (aka Janice Bartmess) the thread would be about 3-4 pages long. Of those 3-4 pages there are about maybe 5 posts worth reading. The rest is a bunch of ridiculous nonsense.
Seek out those that actually know from personal experience about the dogs and lines and take it from there.

Did it come from Sven or Sindy?

Sindy.

It's not just a 2-2 linebreeding on the E litter von den Grauen von Monstab, it's a close 3-3 linebreeding on Trux vh Iris, too.  And both parents are already individually linebred pretty strongly, too, and on some of the same dogs.

That's a lot of inbreeding--could make great dogs, could make disasters.

Christine

I agree with Blackthorn.