This is a placeholder text
Group text
by kt484 on 12 July 2011 - 04:07
i got a problem with ppl. PPL only want judge on titles.
Yes titles are very nice dont get me wrong but does having a dog without titles really matter. Yes it shows he can work but there are lots of dogs who have schIII and are the worst protection dogs. i had a trainer i work under who was testing a sch3 dog and all he did was put the stick up and the dog stop and ran back to his trainer smh.
"the title dont make the dog the dog makes the title"
what if we had a pup and his parents are PSA3 SCH3 MR3 BUT he never did trials does that make him a bad dog??????
yes this is a debate.
Yes titles are very nice dont get me wrong but does having a dog without titles really matter. Yes it shows he can work but there are lots of dogs who have schIII and are the worst protection dogs. i had a trainer i work under who was testing a sch3 dog and all he did was put the stick up and the dog stop and ran back to his trainer smh.
"the title dont make the dog the dog makes the title"
what if we had a pup and his parents are PSA3 SCH3 MR3 BUT he never did trials does that make him a bad dog??????
yes this is a debate.
by unclemick on 12 July 2011 - 04:07
kt484 you are right. Titles don't mean a thing except they show what the dog is "suppose" to be capable of. And yes you can get a trash dog out of parents that have all the titles they could ever get and a great dog out of parents that have no titles at all. But... you are increasing the odds of having nice pups from titled dogs, in my opinion. Otherwise, how do you seperate yourself from someone that is just another back yard breeder?
by kt484 on 12 July 2011 - 04:07
your right but for example my grandfather from czar von haus royal egor is a personal protection and i believe a k9 too.
BUT does that make him a bad dog since is aint SCH you know what i mean ppl alwasy say that got to be titles i mean i got a blk lab mix he and i trained and handle him myself. i trained him to do a WHOLE sch3 obedience but i never titled him to get his BH. Im just starting him in AKC obedience because everyone say es that good. Lots of trainers sports and regular ones. And he is no were close to being a bad dog i had ppl ask to breed with him(hes cut). i mean come one now
BUT does that make him a bad dog since is aint SCH you know what i mean ppl alwasy say that got to be titles i mean i got a blk lab mix he and i trained and handle him myself. i trained him to do a WHOLE sch3 obedience but i never titled him to get his BH. Im just starting him in AKC obedience because everyone say es that good. Lots of trainers sports and regular ones. And he is no were close to being a bad dog i had ppl ask to breed with him(hes cut). i mean come one now
by Elkoorr on 12 July 2011 - 16:07
I dont think people only want to judge on titles. I cant speak for everyone else, but I can tell you what I make out of it. The titles behind a dog tell a story about the dog itself. If the dog has a schutzhund title it means that it passed 3 phases and achieved the minimum score there. It means that the dog is able to learn and accept commands from the handler. That it is able to follow a scent without having the track sprayed with hot dogs. Passing the obedience part means that the dog was able to work with a decent amount of focus to master a rather longer (then AKC) routine, that it is able to jump (and you would wonder how many dogs are not able to get over the 1m hurdle), and that it is willing to obey its handler and function as part of a team.
The most important part is the protection routine as many things will have to come together to be able to pass this part. First, the dog knows whats coming, it knows that there is a sleeve guy in the blind #6. It is also the part that is most fun and most stressful to the dog. This phase tests the dogs makeup. Is the dog able to percieve and follow commands under high levels of anticipation and stress? Is the dog able to work itself through this or does it cause a conflict between drive, obeying and confidence? With the dog passing this phase it means that it was able to remain in controll of itself, to be obedient under a lot of stress, to be level headed enough to go for the helper and not for the judge or bystander, and be confident enough to confront the decoy, hold its ground and give the helper a bit of a fight while taking a couple good hits. Is this fool proof, No, its not. Yet it tells me more about the dog then having no titles and just the owners description of that it is a great dog.
PPDs and K9s are a very grey area for me. PPD is a widely missused form of a "title" (for the lack of a better word). There are no regulations, official comparisons or actual recognized awards of it. Few years ago it seemed that many who bred dogs (GSDs) that did not have recognized titles used this basically as a justification (excuse so to say) to make the breeeding more sound rightfully. There are a few businesses that train PPDs. I will not discredit anyone who can show at least a certificate of training and testing with such business. But just because a dog says Woof! when a stranger approaches, doesnt make it a PPD. So, seeing a PPD "title" with a dog doesnt tell you anything about the makeup of the dog.
K9s.... it is a grey area to me as well, but for very different resaons. There are many forms of K9s. Depending in what the dog is trained in, the requirements on the dog are very very different; and nowadays they are often bred towards the attributes they have to show. Per example, a sniffer dog might not have the courage to confront a man on the street. A street K9 might not have the absolute discipline and calmness required of a bomb dog. So again, just having K9 written in the pedigree doesnt tell what kind of dog. More information is needed.
Summa Sumarum, titles dont make a dog, but a dog that has titles tells a story. Question is: are you listening what it has to say?
The most important part is the protection routine as many things will have to come together to be able to pass this part. First, the dog knows whats coming, it knows that there is a sleeve guy in the blind #6. It is also the part that is most fun and most stressful to the dog. This phase tests the dogs makeup. Is the dog able to percieve and follow commands under high levels of anticipation and stress? Is the dog able to work itself through this or does it cause a conflict between drive, obeying and confidence? With the dog passing this phase it means that it was able to remain in controll of itself, to be obedient under a lot of stress, to be level headed enough to go for the helper and not for the judge or bystander, and be confident enough to confront the decoy, hold its ground and give the helper a bit of a fight while taking a couple good hits. Is this fool proof, No, its not. Yet it tells me more about the dog then having no titles and just the owners description of that it is a great dog.
PPDs and K9s are a very grey area for me. PPD is a widely missused form of a "title" (for the lack of a better word). There are no regulations, official comparisons or actual recognized awards of it. Few years ago it seemed that many who bred dogs (GSDs) that did not have recognized titles used this basically as a justification (excuse so to say) to make the breeeding more sound rightfully. There are a few businesses that train PPDs. I will not discredit anyone who can show at least a certificate of training and testing with such business. But just because a dog says Woof! when a stranger approaches, doesnt make it a PPD. So, seeing a PPD "title" with a dog doesnt tell you anything about the makeup of the dog.
K9s.... it is a grey area to me as well, but for very different resaons. There are many forms of K9s. Depending in what the dog is trained in, the requirements on the dog are very very different; and nowadays they are often bred towards the attributes they have to show. Per example, a sniffer dog might not have the courage to confront a man on the street. A street K9 might not have the absolute discipline and calmness required of a bomb dog. So again, just having K9 written in the pedigree doesnt tell what kind of dog. More information is needed.
Summa Sumarum, titles dont make a dog, but a dog that has titles tells a story. Question is: are you listening what it has to say?
by myret on 13 July 2011 - 18:07
I do not know if I think titles are important, but in a way is important and in a sense they are not important, titles give some sort of an expression of what a type of dog here and which drive level dog stands. but the question is whether people can tell the difference between the real dog with the true desires, or whether it is a dog that is built because it has been 1
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top