PANO, Panosteitis, limping in different legs, - Page 1

Since I have posted so much about foods, percentage of protein in food that is suggested by many breeders and vets experienced with diagnosing pano, I thought it might be good to start a thread about this, and see what input others have. Maybe this will help others whose pup(s)/dog(s) are experiencing the same problem and don't have a clue where to turn! When my male was diagnosed at a young age to have Pano (he was eating what was then considered a high quality diet--Hill's Science Diet--granted this was YEARS ago before it was purchased by it's current owner), my vet prescribed him rimadyl and buffered aspirin. She said it would go away on it's own. Well, it didn't, and so I started researching this more and more, and taking him to different vets for alternate opinions. The conclusion was always the same, but I finally ran into a vet who had some experience in the matter, and had been conducting some studies. He had found a link in incidence of pano, elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia to the FOOD which was being fed, and USUALLY only to large breed dogs (and basset hounds!). The main culprits were fat, protein, phosphorus and calcium intake. He suggested feeding a high quality food with a lower % of protein--he suggested 26% or LESS until the dog was finished growing, as it caused the bone growth to grow at a more constant rate instead of the "growth spurts" that seemed to cause the pano. Those same growth spurts were also seen to have caused hip and elbow issues. Since this ailment TYPICALLY is seen in specific large breed dogs, I would suggest that there is a high liklihood that this could be a genetic issue. Since there is currently no way to tell for sure, I neutered my male once he was an adult (for neutering before adulthood brings on a whole other set of problems which, and especially in his case, could exacerbate his problem! Once I got him on a lower protein diet, along with the better quality food and vitamin C supplement, he improved leaps and bounds. Watching my dog, as just a young little puppy (4 months old until he was over 11 months) was heartbreaking. I feel that my ignorance on the matter is no excuse, and so I have tried to help others. For puppy guarantees, the owners must keep proof of food being fed, supplements, etc. and keep that dog on a 26% protein or less diet consisting of a high quality premium kibble until the hips have been x-rayed for "a" stamp certification. I suggest that they continue that diet, as it has worked with my dogs, but that is up to each person and what they feel is right for them. However, to keep the guarantee, they must abide by the contract, and I feel that in this way, at least, I can help other dogs who might have suffered the way he did, due to my ignorance. Here is just one of many links to be found on the subject matter: http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/lpano.htm I am going to contact this vet and see if he ever published his findings or not. If he did, I will (with his permission) post them, or the link to them. Without his assistance, I would have continued feeding what I was feeding, and caused more problems. My dog limping around and crying and holding up whichever paw it was for that week (he had a serious case, that has resolved itself, but still presents occasionally when he is under stress, although he is 5 years of age, when he will stop eating and start limping around again. His DJD doesn't help either, although he does not (yet) have HD or ED.) Anyone else who has had this happen with their dog, I would love to hear how it was diagnosed (what age), and what the vet recommended for treatment.

I feed my dogs raw, however For deployment purposes I am unable to. It was suggested that I try EVO. The protein percentage is I believe is approx. 49 % (I'm not sure of the exact %) Within 10 days of feeding EVO my dog was very painful. Just trying to pet him caused him to flinch and scream inpain. His legs, his head, anywhere. My vet preformed muscle enzyme tests, complete blood panel and full set of skeletal radiographs. Every long bone in his body was inflamed. At that point he asked me what had changed with the dog. After much thought I realized I had changed his food. Interestingly, RAW is very high in protein but metabolized much differently. I had to remove him from active status for 8 weeks.(he is FEMA certified disaster search dog) By the way, he was 4 when he developed the pano

Hi vonFelsenHof, I have had 2 dogs with Pano in the 24 years that I have had GSD's. They were fed vastly different diets. The first one was fed primarily what we would now consider to be a very low quality dry food, but she also received a variety of fresh foods, meats, bones etc. She had a pretty mild case. Hips and elbows were xrayed at 3 years old and she was great. From memory, the only treatment that she received was rest and painkillers when she was really bad (this was 16 years ago, OK!!!). The second is now 3 yrs old. She was bad for about 7 months, with the pano moving from leg to leg. She was fed on a good quality dry food with bones and a variety of other foods as well. She also had Rimadyl and aspirin when she was bad, plus crate enforced rest! Her hip and elbow results are outstanding, so I do not see any correlation there. There is no common bloodline between the 2 bitches for about 7 generations. I do know that a male relative of the second bitch also had pano for quite a few months. The most common denominator for me between my 2 instances is that they both were the types to run themselves ragged,play drive extremely high. I have had lots of other pups fed the same diets with similar bloodlines and no problems at all, including pups that grew quite large. Don't know if this helps, just my experience! Regards,

Wow thanks for the article VomFelsenHof! I've actually printed the article out and will include it to the rest of my "dog health related" articles. Do you have any other articles that has to do with Canine Osteomyelitis by any chance? this is what my bitch has and it's taking forever to heal up! It's a very long process and painful (emotional) recovery :(

Good thread. Every few months someone else comes up with different research results... Some sources say low protein, slow growth and proper Calcium:Phosphorous ratio. Others seem to dismiss that as not making a difference after all. I can only tell from experience with different breeds that the reason why we make Eagle Pack Original Adult mandatory for pups after 12-16 weeks of age until age 1 and after they have been a-stamped is the consistently positive result. This food has 25% protein. I actually believe that 15% fat is not enough but more fat can always be added. Eagle Original Adult is the only dog food that I know of that is suitable for growing youngsters that has the correct Calcium:Phosphorous ratio. Eagle was the first dog food to preserve food naturally with Vit-C and Rosemary extract. After one year of age, people can feed whatever they want, paint their dog pink, I don't care. But for the time frame that someone wants to hold me responsible, they darn better do what has been proven to work so far. They are free not to follow the feeding schedule, but then are also free not to covered by any guarantees. So far, our feeding regimen has been very successful, and since I mention it frequently to others the feedback coming from people on this site that have switched has been pretty positive and encouraging. Not a fan of raw diets unless you have become an absolute expert in the area. We do not guarantee pups raised on raw, unless a breeder can prove existing long term success with it. Not too much to ask to put one pup on a different diet. If it works... saves the dog a lifetime of problems. A good foundation will pay off later by keeping the dog healthier during the active phase, and usually lets the dog age better later in life. Your post has shown once again how diverse the opinions are on HD and ED development. The veterinary community cannot decide what is the stronger influence - genetics or environment, or how much of a role either plays. Right now the somewhat accepted consensus is 30%genetic, 70% acquired. At least that is what the SV supports. IMO it is safe to say that all factors need proper attention and that owner responsibilty starts with researching the parents and choosing the right pup and also includes keeping a pup trim, lean and healthy, provide premium food of the right kind, avoid over and under exercise and injury, poor bedding choices, crammed sleeping/resting quarters and too much time in them, poor footing such as slippery floors, too much exposure to cold/wet/drafty conditions, etc. Staying in touch with the breeder or seller, especially at first signs of trouble and not shying away from the odd vet bill when something seems amiss can often be helpful too Pano genetic? Possibly. Food could be the trigger to express that propensity for pano. Different breeds of dogs have different feeding requiremnts, which is also a fairly new discovery. When I grew up most dogs were fed a food called Chappi which came in different 'flavors' but not different formulas. That came later. Its not been that long... People still often feed the wrong kind of food for their dog. Anyone ever have any experience with the rare chronic case of Pano? A bit sad how little attention and contribution this thread is getting. I guess we'd need to throw in a bit of drama in order to make it more intersting ;o).

Nobody wants to add anything if they're gonna get plastered for it D.H. And I don't feel I could contribute anything (and maybe others are in same position) to this thread as I have not dealt with pano... Yet. Hope never, but that's wishful thinking I know. Hope those who do have expeirience will step forward and " do tell " We could all learn from it I'm sure.

Hi guys just to let you know there is some info on this topic in the Eagle Pack.com website.I have just switched my 22 month old onto the EVO red meat formula with NO grain in it and it has 42% protein and 22% fat.I am having a bit of an issue with solid stools on this food which haa also happened on there regular Innova line.I would appreciate some feedback on this because my dog has an intolorance to certain foods and when I had him on the vet food Hills ZD which was great as far as identifing that it was in fact a problem with food he was having but my dog lost all kinds of weight no matter how much I fed him.He has now gained quite a bit back and is nice and lean.Thanks in advance

vom Felsenhof & D.H., thank you for expanding on an aggravating and elusive subject. Approximately five (5) years ago I experienced Pano once with two (2) males from the same litter when they became approximately nine (9) months of age. They were still being fed Bil-Jac large breed puppy food, and were correct in body size and structure for that age. And, the quantity of the daily ration was typically less than specified on the bag's label. Everything was going perfectly. Suddenly each male developed a limp that would move from the left front leg to the right front leg. I spoke to our veterinarian and read as much as I could about the subject. Of all of the things that I read, there was still much disagreement as to the root cause. While I understood exactly what caused the pain (bone platelet growth and shift) I could not determine an exact remedy that was supported 100% by the veterinary community. I did the simple thing-I switched them to Royal Canin GSD Maxi 24 (24% crude protein) for approximately two (2) months. The limping slowly went away, and once I was sure I carefully brought them back to the puppy food, mixed 50:50 with the adult food and they stayed on this blend until they were fourteen (14) months of age. There was no reoccurrence, and both males grew to be just over medium size with good hips. It was my first experience with Royal Canin, and I have used it since. I don't remember who all I asked once, but my question was whether it seemed that males are more predisposed to Pano than females, and the general consensus was that they are. Which makes at least elementary sense to me due to their faster growth rate to achieve the larger size. I can understand a genetic predisposition to develop Pano if a marked, extreme growth rate can be proven to exist in a certain breed line, but lacking a tremendous amount of hard data that would be impossible to prove. Thanks Again, Bob-O