Food question - Page 2

We feed One, at 26% and mix a can of Alpo (8-9%) between 4 dogs. I am interested in supplementing Santo's protein as he recovers from surgery, but didn't want to cross that line... I asked about adding glutamine and was told that it wouldn't hurt, might not help either. Creatinine would be another choice, similar to what body builders use to bulk up. Any thoughts on quickly bioavailable protein other than amino acids? Thanks, Lorri

EchoMeadows, Just a little food for thought: Higher protein levels (over 26%) have been linked to, and also known to exacerbate panosteitis, which is inflammation of the long bones. This usually presents in the dog limping, and it typically goes through all four legs. This is caused by rapid growth in excess, which is what happens to the GSD if fed too high protein content. Maybe you've always been lucky, but others of us have not. My male GSD got this eating Hill's Science Diet Large Breed Puppy formula many years ago. People (even some vet's) say that this lasts only while the dog is growing, but my male still limps occasionally when under stress. After much research and checking with vetrerinarians who have a lot of experience with the breed, I was given the diagnosis of pano due to too much protein, which they say is all too common. Others have changed foods to a lowered protein content when their own dogs were limping and diagnosed with pano, with excellent results. I wish I had done this research BEFORE my dog got pano. I could have saved him a lot of misery! You should also know that excessive rapid growth can be the cause of hip and elbow dysplasia, as the joints are not made to handle that type of growth, and often the weight that follows that type of growth. Joints need to grow properly over time. Protein is "absolutely needed"--just not in the percentages you're giving. 26% or less is essential after 12 weeks until they're finished growing at 20 months (female) or 24 months (male). Up til 12, and maybe even 16 weeks, a higher level of protein is acceptable and recommended. After they have finished growing, giving the higher protein levels will not hurt them. Your lack of knowledge in this area should cause you to do some research. Call up a few vets (and not just the ones in your area!) and ask them what causes panosteitis. Call up YOUR vet and ask. It's not the dog food companies that decided to lower protein levels because of $$$$$. It was complaints from people and vets who were telling the companies that this food was causing the "LARGE BREED" dogs many problems. I am happy for you and your dogs that you have avoided problems thus far, but I would be very careful in recommending the feeding regimen that you are, as many people will come to regret it if they follow it. I applaud your looking into things, and this is one of those things you should really do some additional research before making an incorrect conclusion based on something you were told.

Vom Fel, which is exactly why I say things like "I have been told" and "My vet" and typically I follow up with things like "talk to your vet" I know the feed game is a "prefference" with the owners/breeders of dogs, I know what I preffer based on research "I" have done with "My vet" does not mean I "RECCOMEND" to anyone else. Just offered my own personal expeirience. and should have followed that one up with "TALK TO YOU OWN VET" My appologies for missing it this time. Thank You for pointing it out. :-)

Ohhh and I see you thought I was talking about adding cat food to my dogs feed... NO NO NO, We do that for the Shelter dogs because the feed we get there is low in protein and poor quality. Now I see what you mean, Please go back and read the ENTIRE POST Vom Fel you will see what I was talking about, and ummm did not see anywhere where "I suggested" that anyone take my advice and feed just like me. I would never presume to be that arogant.

EchoMeadows: No, I was not referring to that post. I was referring to this one: "Dogs do need Protein people, I feed 29% and Higher only !!!! I don't beleive in stripping essential protein from the dogs diet and neighther does my VET and I have never had any digestive issues, bloat, runny stools, hurking up, or anything like that. I even supplement my protein levels with egg, and burger. Come on why are we trying to starve these dogs of what they NEED TO BUILD LEAN MUSCLE ? You start feeding lower than 21% and your gonna have all kinds of Muscle Damage, if they don't get what they need, things like muscle suffer cause the Organs make sure they get what they need to keep functioning, Keep that in mind please. and Vom B I like you, I respect you, so am saying this with respect to you and in friendship. And only sharing with you what Many VETS here agree on." You say that you feed a protein percentage of "29% or higher only!!!!" This is great that this has worked for your dogs. If your "many VETS" there agree with that decision, that is okay as well. Once you have dogs that develop these problems (I neutered my male that had this issue, as there is NO WAY to know if this propensity towards panosteitis and DJD is genetic, or if I was the cause, due to what I fed him. I read and re-read your post, and that is the main reason I posted. People need to be aware of both sides of an issue before making a decision on what to feed or not to feed their dog. I have no problem supplementing with eggs or meat--I am saying that while they are growing between 12 weeks and ADULTHOOD, GSD's should not be fed high amounts of protein if you want to avoid these problems completely. They should also be kept lean. If you do choose to feed a high protein/calcium diet, you need to ensure that your dogs are staying lean (NOT starving, as I have seen one breeder do) until their growth to adulthood is completed. This is another reason that I do not "free feed" my dogs, but rather feed them 2-3 meals per day. Each dog has special food that it eats, and I am lucky enough to be able to do this for each one, rather than buy one dog food for all of them. But, I digress... I was not trying to insult you, just suggesting that you do a little research before making a blanket statement. I was also not suggesting you are arrogant, far from it--just trying to help others avoid making the same mistake made by myself because I had NO CLUE that this could cause any issues. Let others learn from my mistake!

Vom Fel, Excellent point !! Let others learn from my mistake, Well can they not also learn from others sucess ? Not trying to be rude to you, I have had good luck, My dogs are LEAN not thin but lean, I have been very lucky, and hope it stays that way :-) Again please don't take this wrong, I was not suggesting to anyone that they do what I do was just offering up that it works for me. I don't know how or why, but my vet feels great about my dogs, and I'm seriously leaning toward genetics for fast growth, afterall we use hormones to promote growth in all kinds of livestock, (whole nother story there) But I am researching the genetics of growth, and feeds as well. You make some excellent points and definately raise the awareness on the danger of feeding for "FAST" large growers, Something I am definately aware of but maybe others are not so raising that point is EXCELLENT !! Good Job. and I thank you.