Really Confused!!!!!! - Page 1

Hallo to everyone on this board. This days I m looking forword to introduced some new gsds to my stock. But I m really confused. Because I m intrested in Young male. I take a look at 2 young males of 9 months.They r from same litter and carring same lines. but both of them r some difference and tht really confused me. 1) 1st dog is big in size than 2nd one. He got good movement but not verygood ear carring and tale carring. He's not hook his tale but there was littlebit of zigzag in his tale while moving. He got black and red color. 2)2nd dog is midium sized dog than 1st one. He got good movemenent. But he is not in condition and substance like 1st one. But he hv good ear carring, good tale carring and also very good head with very good marking. The color is black and red but his color is also good than 1st one. Because of this things I m really confused. I m thiking for 2nd one. Wht u think in this case if u hv this prob with u? Hope board will help me to select right one for me.

Roy, you are making a good observation about inconsistancies of littermates. They are always present, but from a good breeding they tend to be minor and not exaggerated such as what you noticed. The one (1) thing that would concern me is that either male of choice MIGHT reinforce these inconsistancies in his progeny. But I may add that this is but two (2) examples from one (1) litter and these observed traits may not repeat during the subsequent breedings of the same parents. Look at it a bit differently: Say from a litter of six (6) puppies your choice puppy has an O.F.A. "Excellent" preliminary result for his hips-probably a good candidate for breeding. However, if his littermates are examined and the findings are one (1) "good", one (1) "fair" and two (2) who are dysplastic. Now where is the consistancy? He very well might produce poor hips at a higher level than normal. Consistancy is of utmost importance, especially for any puppy purchased for a future breeding programme. Bob-O

BOB Are OFA really giving out that many Excellents these days? I heard thru grapevine no mostly Good. Just had my 2 year old done hoping for EXC. but will be satisfied with GOOD.

Bob_O I m forgot to inform u about the 2 young males tht both of them not at one place and not at breeder place. Both of them was sold at the age of 2 months from the breeder. The 1st one which I was told u. He kept by his owner in good condition. But the second one is not kept in good condition by his owner. I took a look at the litter when the pups r at the age of 2 months. Tht time the differece between this 2 was not visiable. Now I m confused bcs wht kind of Male is good for me The medium sized or big one. I m intrested in this yrs shows and also for breeding in future. Both young males carring very good lines with them.

To answer your specific question, based on the information given, I would select the 2nd dog. He has no known conformational issues, and the 1st male does. Condition is dependent on care; feeding, exercise, etc. It sounds like the 2nd male has good potential to reach equal condition of the 1st male and not have the faults the 1st male shows. The issues about hips is true for all litters. At this age OFA can do a preliminary xray with 90%+ accuracy. Consider having this done if you are wanting a show/breeding prospect. Good luck with your new boy!

von Brunhaus, good point. I know that I Roy's message took it off-topic a bit, but I was using the O.F.A. results as an example of litter consistancy. Our American GSD's (only for the few examined and scored by the O.F.A.) tend to be this way: Approximately 2%-3% excellent, approximately 79%-78% divided roughly between fair and good, and approximately 19% with borderline to severe hip dysplasie. To have one (1) puppy in any litter who achieves O.F.A. "excellent" is really a long shot by the statistics. I was just using this as an example of consistancy among siblings. Due to the low incidence of the "excellent" rating, it is not so important that any puppy ever obtain this, as it is much more important that the entire litter passes; even if they are just mostly "good" with a few "fair". One could use a similar method of scoring consistancy if one went through the trouble to determine hock length to tibia length, ear sets, tooth sets, etc. before it is later determined through a breed survey. Roy, back to your original post. If I had to select one (1) puppy, I would choose the one who is more correct. Even at their current age. size does not matter as even littermates of the same sex grow and mature at different rates. Bob-O

Roy, listen to your instinct and gut feeling. Go with that. Your gut tends to know when the head does not. Read your original post again and you bascially have your answer. Correct is never wrong. Things like size are fads. Tail issues as you describe are minor. Ears can come back to haunt you though as that tends to be passed on and is more obvious than tail issues. Stick with what is correct and what feels better to you. First impressions are usually right on the button. Bob-O, we rarely see most of the litter mates to help us with a decision, certainly not at advanced ages. So its hard to see how diverse a litter is. Even with the most uniform litter there will always be significant differences. If differences are known I would always go with the more correct dog, and flaws that are minor and not so much in your face (ie ears vs tails). BTW - medium size IS the correct size.

D.H., I agree 100%. Bob-O

BOB O thanks for your reply your opinions are highly respected. I will let you know when I have received his results. He is a VA 2 sohn so I am hoping and keeping my fingers crossed!! Thanks again Bob

I also think you need to look at the females that you will be breeding to this male. I have a large stud with a long croup and body, large head.....I looked for this because most of my females have the shorter body, and croup.... Heather