Why do people use prongs and choke chains, or worse..shock collars? - Page 1

I see it all the time..why not just train your dog to not pull on a leash? Or train them positively to not bark along the fence where the other dog is?
What happens when you take of that shock collar? Will the dog listen to you because of fear? Or will he run away when given the chance? Or when You take off that choker..does your dog go back to pulling?

I am asking this with all seriousness. Why do you use them if it's forcing your dog to do something, when he could learn to not do that behavior? I hope to not start an arguement, I just want to see the benefits you are getting from it.

Have a great night.

Not every method works for every person or every dog.

Also as a companion dog trainer I have learned that 1. I am considered a last resort 7 out of 10 times. 2. Clients want to see quick results.

There is nothing wrong with using either of these TOOLS to get a result if you know how to use them and don't become dependant on them.

I use a pinch collar for impulse control and walking on a loose lead (generally) why? Fast results and the dog is forced to think about what he is doing in a way he/she has never had to. Its all about HOW you use these tools...

All of the dogs I work are primarily under positive reinforcement and I'm not bound by 1 tool. None of the dogs I work go back to pulling on a leash if the same rules and boundaries are kept. All of the dogs are happy while learning and the dog is NOT learning under fear.

This is just my outlook on it. However my outlook maybe skewed.

My personal dogs have been positive with negative verbal markers, no "special" collar needed.

Fear is the ultimate goal. That is why we use prongs, slip chains, and worse, shock collars.

That is why you see the robotic like performances, and the dogs quivering in fear at every trial.

The way that the doggie dancers shock their victims into performing cruel acts like "grease" or some classical piece is horrifying to all that watch. 

Look at any of the videos that have been put up lately, and read the threads. Terror is what we are all about. 

My male LC, I used, (and certain times training still do) a prong due to him being so strong and for types of control and training. My females are on chokers. Flat collars are worn also.  Understand these are tools just as are leashes, harnesses and so forth.

In my eyes misuse and abuse produce the fear. I can grab my prong for Reiker, or the harness, but as soon as he hears the jingle of metal he is doing cartwheels, excited  because of training. To them it's not training or work but fun.  

You'll understand perfectly when you get a dog that warrants it.  I have to laugh when people think that certain dogs are seriously not going to do something that they want to do (that we don't want them to) because they fear they won't get a cookie. There HAS to be a positive AND a negative! If you don't believe this, then I have some pups you can borrow for an hour, if you last that long. 

ohhh brother.............

Been there done it, we have high drive gsd, a flat collar isnt enough to control them as they are fearfull of other dogs.  We use the dominant collar now from Leerberg its working for us so far.

Linda

Speak for your self Jeff, Theses items are all just tools to be used in training. Any tool can be used or abused, If fear is what you are seeing then yes it has been over used and abused but a dog with good working drives will take correction well with great recovery. My father corrected us as children with the back of his hand did i fear my father?? no but I did respect him. 

Every dog is different no 2 dogs can be trainined identically.    

Jeff was being seriously sarcastic.

Ditto what Jenni said.  I have a dog, I'd love to see someone train with purely positive.  It would take you years! if you could do it at all.

 And if you could, RS, you would still have to make sure you never had him in a situation where he might want to do something you felt was undesirable behavior. LOL

I liken it to a child, being seriously disobedient, mean, belligerent, etc., and instead of correcting them for it, you just tell them that if they don't stop, they won't get a reward. 

Personally, I like a dog w/a strong character/personality. I wouldn't even WANT a dog that didn't push the envelope. I've always had the best relationships (after the rough patches) w/the ones that I had to get a real firm handle on very young. I like tenacity, mischief, a devil-may-care attitude in a pup.

And Bob, yikes! Jeff was totally kidding;-)