Puppy Temperament Test - Page 1

Hi All,

Is there a standard puppy temperament test or several? Which one do you use?

How accurate has this test been when placing a working/SAR/Police/Service puppy?

When (at what age) do you feel confident in telling the customer this puppy is going to make a great such and such dog?

I do realize that genetics also plays a huge part in the selection.

Thanks for your input.

C

http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com/articles/pdf/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf 

This is a test a breeder can do.

Technically, ENS isn't considered a test, as it is a protocol of which the acclaimed benefits are highly debateable.  But, I would actually agree that it IS A TEST, in that the responses of the pup can reveal some very important information to the breeder.  Breeders that spend any real time observing or interacting with their pups are going to have a lot more in depth knowledge than any formalized test can measure.  In my opinion, the designed tests are really only useful for first time observers, or for long term record keeping purposes.  Candidates being evaluated for policework are usually young adults, and not pups.

Mirasmom,
Thank you for your suggestion. I have seen this paper before and it is an interesting read, but not really what I am talking about. Wanted to tell you the puppy pictures in the red wagon are priceless. 

Darylehret,
Thanks for replying. BTW I also read the papers by Armin Walker you suggested. Very cool stuff. Learned a lot.

I asked this question because as a buyer with limited resources (can't afford to fly all over the country looking at litters) I am relying a lot on the breeders knowledge and experience to select a puppy that hopefully fits my needs. 

So when they advertise that "These pups will make great such and such dogs" are they basing this on a temperament test or solely on the genetics.

Please PM me if you do not feel comfortable replying to this publicly I check my message box frequently.

Thanks,
C

I think by 8 weeks old a breeder can tell what a pup is going to be suitable for. Many factors play into how a pup is developed after it's placed such as type of training, handlers ability to raise a working dog and genetics. You just need to find a breeder that's going to be honest about what kind of dog their selling you. Take the time to read and learn the do's and don'ts of raising a working dog and make sure you find a club or trainer that knows what he or she is doing.  You can do all of the above and still end up with a dud, but stacking the chips in your favor will go along way.

I think to make any fair kind of recommendation it's first important to know where you're coming from (knowlegde & experience) and where you're going (chosen venue & resources available).  Most times on this forum, it's assumed that someone asking has little or no experience and would like to get involved in schutzhund.  I would recommend less extreme qualities of temperament and drives for a novice, and for someone who's not yet committed to a particular venue.  More extreme qualities can be sought that are specifically tailored to the needs of the job intended, but you have to decide exactly what that is, and if your particular experience-based preference and intended living-style will accomodate that type of dog.

When considering a breeding that you yourself will not be able to evaluate in person, I would first recommend only a breeder who has a successful record of producing the sort of dog you require.  For example, if you envision yourself competing on a national level in schutzhund with your dog, then narrow your selection to breeders who have produced dogs which have competed nationally, and have at your disposal a team of experienced trainers that can help guide you in your training to a competitive level.  It may be more costly, but will proportionately reduce your risk of failure.  It's reasonable to understand that it's not merely the dog that meets this level of achievement, but also a dog that can fit YOU, your living situation and your handling style, and having the support of experienced trainers that can help you meet your goal.  You need all of this, but  GENETICS FIRST.

Some dogs (bloodlines) develop their genetic attributes well after the eight week period.  This can be a risky proposition if you're counting on something to be there, and it doesn't develop, or doesn't develop to the level that you require. Generally though, if you can see "it" at eight weeks, you can count on it being there later for training when you require it.  Civil drive is probably the most difficult to identify at such a young age, but there are some telltale signs and suitable testing proceedures to verify presence.  If you don't have a lot of experience with particular bloodlines and the nuances of their development, then consider narrowing your search to pups that show early presence of the required characteristics.  Generally, that can rule out many of the ddr and czech lines, but there are always exceptions.

1. identify your purpose
2. collaborate your resources
3. choose bloodlines and breeder (based on health production, temperament qualities, performance record)
4. allow the breeder to make the selection for you, based on a clear description of the needs you've provided

P.S. don't buy into the "These pups will make great such and such dogs" advertisements.  It's difficult to find any ads that don't hype their litters up beyond their actual potential.

Thanks for the compliment clc29!

Here is the adult temperament test I have all my dogs do, it's a test that they can pass or fail, and I have seen a few dogs fail it.    You never know how a dog will react sometimes when taken out of his own environment, getting by the umbrella opening or the weird stranger seems to make it or break it for the dog!
  After all is said and done, the pups do have parents that can pass on quirky behavours.

http://www.atts.org/

For working dogs there is the PAWS test.  It is good.  There is also the PAT, which is a good start, but less predictive of working ability.  here's a link
http://malinut.com/ref/write/paws/

No one reccomends the Volhard aptitude test ?  I had a woman come and help me test the litter about 6 years ago at 7 weeks, and she picked a puppy to do SAR - which he compleated in KY. She switched venues and went to SCH training, and this WAS NOT the harddest puppy of the litter- just very trainable.
http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php

I have made mistakes in the past by continuing to do this myself, I just took puppies into new area's. However I have not had ONE complaint that the personality/temperment of the puppy was any different than what I projected him to be. Know that I know better I am trading with other breeders to help me temperment test the puppies with them handling them.

Whisper