Breeding Outside Original Environment - Page 1

 
Hello,

My Sky is the first generation born in Egypt. His sire was imported from Germany and his dam was imported from Denmark.
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/620090.html

Sky is going to mate soon and there is this question that keeps coming on and off to my mind:
In order to preserve the breed, is it recommended that I breed Sky to an imported female or to a first-generation-born female?

I've seen thru other species that when a given animal is bred outside its original environment, the physical characteristics start changing generation after generation.
The weather in Egypt is entirely different from that of Germany and Denmark. And I have seen German Shepherds here that prove to be different in many aspects when compared to their imported ancestors.

Your comments and thoughts are much appreciated.

 Maybe you should have someone evaluate the dog for you to see if it is even worth breeding FIRST. I wouldn't worry about the environment all that much. people adjust a "breed" sometimes so it can do better work in whatever climate, but if you are not really doing that, then nothing is going to happen.

I might be wrong but I took the first sentence of your post as an offense. 
I wouldn't have considered breeding my dog if I had any doubt about his breeding potentials.
He possesses the typical traits of a working GSD, and because of this I have received demands for breeding him inside and outside Egypt and I had him evaluated by breeders and trainers as well.
Thank you VERY MUCH for your input!!!

 So you are sort of a sissy. LOL Just because people ask about your dog doesn't always make him breed worthy. What are the typical traits you speak of, and how has he proven them to you ?

My doubts in your ability come from your sentence about a GSD transforming into something different because you live in Egypt. I would think that you would at least have a better education on the breed before doing some breeding. However, I never said don't breed the dog. Many people, and people that I guarantee are dumber than you can imagine are breeding the GSD.

Good luck, and try not to get so butthurt. laugh a little. If I said that to your face, which, if you asked me, my answer would be the same AND, you would not have been offended. 

Before a GSD is deemed to be breeding worthy they should be surveyed by the SV or a similar governing body.  Also they should have their hips x-rayed and they must be within a suitable range or you risk passing the horrible trait of hip displasya to the puppies.  I would also never breed without doing genetic testing for DM (degeneretive myleopathy) which is common enough in German Shepherds that it needs to be checked for.  If your dog is a carrier for the disease you need to be extremely selctive with the dog you would breed her to, and if she HAS the gene you should not breed her at all as you rist passing the trait on to the puppies.

A Shepherd is not breed worthy just because he or she looks nice.  German Shepherds were poorly bred in parts of the world for so many years that certain inhereted diseased have run rampant in the breed, and it's only been in recen history that true. selective breeders who breed to better the breed have taken the time to carefully asses and test their stock in order to breed out some of these terrible diseases and ailments that plague this amazing breed.  I've learned that breeding GSDs is rather scientific to be honest.

If you are breeding pet quailty dogs then you must realize that you are part of the problem.  Are you prepared to take any or all of these puppies back should there be issues and their respective owners can't or don't want them anymore?  What about if they develop hip displasia or DM down the road?  Are you prepared to take full responsibility for breeding uhealthy puppies?  Including financial responsibility for the medical costs?

I am genuinely asking these questions of you in hopes that you will ask them of yourself and find out if you truly want to breed to improve the quality of the breed, or do you just want to breed so that you can have a litter of pretty dogs from petty parents that you really know nothing about.

Please make an informed decision.

I don't know why this thread is going to the direction of accusing me that I am completely ignorant about the breed..etc

I have checked the HD and xrayed my dog, not to mention that his dam, sire and all his siblings are free from HD & DM.
And NO, I would never ever breed my dog to a female that carries genetic diseases nor vise versa. Case closed!

I asked the question of changing environment because it is a scientific fact that animals bred outside their natural environment exhibit physical changes after breeding generations outside such environment
The case that I witnessed with my eyes is the Arabian horse. Arabian horses imported from Deserta Arabia to Europe (and other regions not identical in climate to the desert) did exhibit physical changes.
Try and get the long haired GSDs, for example, and breed them in the desert for the next 50 or 60 years. Will the the generation born then wil look the same as the first imports????? I very much doubt it.
That's my question and argument.
Thank you!

Yes, an alteration of environment will impact the processes of regulatory dna that code for particular phenotypes during the transcription process of your next generation's offspring, and become more clearly evident in subsequent generations.  If you're not the first Egyptian breeder of GSD's, then ask the others in your local climate what specific changes have occured.  One example I recall, Jinopo kennels exported two long haireds for breeding in the Kingdom of Bahrain.

Genetics determines a dog's structure, NOT environment! The only thing that is going to change with environment is the length of the dog's coat!  Okay, yes, those dogs born in Egypt are going to develop a better tolerance for the climate, but that will not change their appearance.

If there are structural changes in the Arabian horses born outside of Arabia, these are MAN MADE, the result of selective breeding, not the environment.

Please read up on genetics, so that you can gain a better understanding of natural selection, and man-made selection. They are the only two things that can cause changes in the dog's structure and appearance.

Hi Raina,

I have observed the change in breeds outside their environment. However, a breeder is responsible for selecting parents with original traits of the breed, which in some countries is not taken as seriously as in others.
There are ppl all over the world that breed exactly according to German SV rules, and due to strict breeding rules and DNA matches most puppies will be born within the breed standards. Those that vary too much will not be used for further breeding.

However, as you see e.g. in the US where there is a lot of German Shepherd breeders that breed outside of the SV regulations, I guess partly they are looking for a dog outside of the original standards or they just breed because they like how breeding dogs look like, there are many variation from the original. Breeders are responsible to hold up a standard and different countries allow different standards (different countries - different preferences - e.g. black/tan as in the 1940's versus black/red  today or long hair versus "stock" short hair - overstreched angulation of the hips as in US showlines versus midly angulated hips in European working lines).

So if you wish to breed according to SV standards to keep health, stability and overall standard of the orginal German breed, you will follow the rules of the SV and select carefully which dog to breed. And if you follow the history of the German Shepherd within SV rules, you will see that there is always slight fluctuation of preferences within breed standards (esp. colours) over time - since 1890 .
I would recommend to study the history of the breed, the breed standards and its amendments within time as well as past and current breed surveys (Körberichte).