IRISH SIEGER RESULTS - Page 2

Albert

I swore i wouldnt get into this type of debate but as you have publicly named our dog Wilson as having failed his bitework to the world i have no alternative but to put some facts out onto the debate table. 

Lets remember dogs are not robots and can have their off days like anyone or anything......just because a dog has an off day and releases when he shouldnt doesnt make him a poor specimen of the breed or that he can no longer offer something to the breed,  our dog Wilson Von Der Schnuckenweide SchH3 Kkl1 did FAIL his bitework for the first time EVER in his career at that show, he has been shown at a number of Sieger shows around the world including in Germany making Youth Sieger in 2006 and passing his bitework in 2007 and making the place V24 in Braunschweig.  

Albert you make the comment " Too many of the dogs are sent to Germany to get a " fast track " working qualification" I feel this to be an unfair generalisation to make under the circumstances..... to the owners of the dogs you are refering to and to the trainers involved in the training of these dogs...not to mention the trial judges that award the titles...

For the record Wilson spent 3 and a half years training in Germany and in fact was a demonstration dog at schutzhund for his OG...  i cannot say why he didnt perform, he was exceptional in all the practice bites he had leading up to it, i did feel however that although all the dogs were subjected to 2 strong lashes of the Helpers stick which i believe was a request made by the judge or so i was told on the day i felt that the 2 lashes given to Wilson were of a force i felt bordered on abuse of an animal....my opinion... to people who are not from a working background this type of treatment of a dog or dogs at an event such as the irish sieger show would not have encouraged people to enter into the sport, even at the BSZS the dogs are not subjected to this type of treatment in the bitework test..... 

Regards

Mark Plunkett 

 It seems to me incredible that so many dogs did not pass the bitework, including experienced ones  like Wilson mentioned above and Xaro Ben Harten who has also performed fine before to my knowledge (at least he was VA1 in COAPA).  Were the helpers experienced or were they in fact doing something wrong??  I know a dog of good character should bite anyway, and re-bite if they do not hit the sleeve correctly the first time. As sparky71 mentioned  dogs are not machines and can have an off-day, but it is very, very strange that so many failed.  I would be interested to hear any more comments from people who were there.

 I meant to ask if in the Irish sieger the dogs have to release on order, or if they just have to bite the sleeve?

Hi OSO

The dogs should release on command, i have no idea how experienced the helpers were or were not or whether they held valid helper licences with the GSA, i would presume they did or at least they should have, but that is an issue for the club.
But im am bemused as to why it was felt necessary to instruct the helpers on the day to whip the dogs with the stick at least twice once they bite the sleeve, this was the sole cause of the failures on the day, one particular dog was struck with the stick across the muzzle and eyes, nobody that i saw even enquired if  that dog was ok afterwards...many of the owners of the dogs that failed were concerned for the welfare of their dogs following the bitework test.
I would love to see how the owners of dogs in the working class at this years Sieger Show in Nuremburg would react if it was decided that their dogs receive 2 belts of the helpers stick once they take the sleeve, and when i say belt i mean a right good crack that could be mistaken for a gun shot..... i can bet you it would never be allowed to happen. 

And was it necessary for it to be done this way at our Sieger Show,  NO is the answer!   

Mark.    

Hi Mark

Funny I too said i wouldn,t get drawn  on any debate on here so this will be my last post on the matter .  I agree with what you say about dogs not being robots  & I actually think all the named dogs are super specimens of the breed.I also think you have taken it as a critiscism of the dogs when believe me it wasn,t meant in that context but also , when you enter a PUBLIC dog show EXPECT certain dogs to be named for both good & bad .


Regards
Ally

I’m showing GSD now almost 25 years and have been around the ring to see the good and the bad, I’ve made many friends and always enjoyed my weekends to shows,
The GSD world in Ireland was/is declining and has slowly but surly lost its way. The standard of the breed was slipping with only a hand full of people keeping the hard work going to try improve the situation,
I hope the standard is now returning with very high Quality youngsters been presented at shows this year,
In recent years kennels have brought in many top imports to our small country, all off which are high standard and no doubt priced,
It has become an agenda here in Ireland to knock any Import that has come to the country and begrudge the owners, its as if people pray and hope these dogs fail at every thing they do,

The guys that own these top dogs have them here in Ireland, Guys a small island with no more then maybe 1OO breeders if that , they are never going to make it rich from studding. There dogs are here for the greater good of our breed,
Xaro, Wilson, Solo, Natz, Ilbo etc, all different type males and bloodlines, all with some thing to offer our breed in Ireland,


Ken

On a personal note Congratulations to Patrick Thomas with Ilbo Vom Holtkamper-see and the Sieger title

Ken

WTF?  They actually hit the dogs with the stick?  What sort of 'sport' is this?  I would personally punch the lights out of anyone who struck my dog in whatever situation.  If thats what is required to enter these shows you can stick it where the sun does not shine.  Give me the triangle and once up and down any day. 

the irish seiger,in 2008 died as a main show on our calender for one reason and one reason alone, the cronic helper work of mr david buckley with the males. there was a large party over from the mainland with many good dogs that where failed by the same practice of stick hits to the head and eye areas.after six of the first seven dogs all failed, the judge interveined and questioned his quaulity of helper work and was herd telling him to sort himself out or we had no show,he then went very very soft on the dogs.to late for the unlucky six.letters where sent to the commitee with a basic we have had your money so put up or shut up responce.well shut up they did in numbers,as from then the irish seiger was over as a main event, with hardley any support from the many that used to look at it as one of the main events of the year.all that training and money to go over  to have your dog be abused with an idiot with a sleeve and a stick.the same year all the dogs failed in ireland passed at the british seiger,with firm but fair helpers.and so to 2010 same old same old when will these people learn,as the saying goes, "you can talk to a man with a wooden leg but not with a wooden head"