Really confuse with Show line vs Work line - Page 1

hello all,

i spent a lot of hours reading thru all these message boards and from what i learn, show line owner claim the show line are as good as the working line. people who own,train, and/or decoy with both show line and work line claim they prefer work line over show line but didnt give a reason why.

other than the dogs being different in color, maybe size/speed and price (some show line seem to be ridiculous high price), what is the difference between the two? should they be consider two different breed? are they still german shepherd if you breed showline to workline? why do i see showline with only blk/red dogs and no workline dogs or sable or black dogs in their pedigree while workline have sable to black dogs and no blk/red or showline dogs in their pedigree? isnt IPO equivalent to SCH? the videos ive seen on youtube, they do the same training and perform almost the same. 

 You will see a lot of discussion about this topic, I think there have been other related threads.

Really there should be only one German Shepherd which is a working dog of excellent temperament but also of good structure - mainly I  because the correct angulations and conformation make this dog much more efficient in movement, capable of trotting long distances without becoming tired etc. but the aesthetic aspect has also come to play an important part.

Now some people have concentrated more on the working aspect, breeding dogs with the highest drives, firmest grips, best temperament to compete in schutzhund, while others have concentrated more on beauty.  In both cases certain aspects have been neglected or overdone.  

I get the impression that some people are starting to be concerned about this division.  Tomorrow I am going to a talk by SV judges Heinz  Scheerer and Leonard Schweikert about the Future of the German Shepherd Dog (I believe its a talk that has already been given in Germany).  This should be very interesting.

The difference in the two types of dogs is genetics, pure and simple. Get a 10 generation pedigree on a showline dog and a workingline dog. Put them side by side and by the seventh generation(maybe the fifth), you will clearly see the differences. Then read any book on genetics and read about the effects of what you have before you and it will become clear to you.

From my point of view, the first 3 traits for breeding top s/l would be type, gait then working ability, pretty much in that order.

The first traits in the top working/sport dogs are just that, working/sport ability. Emphasis on type will vary greatly with individual breeders.

This is a very general observation, but it doesn't take long until any type of controlled breeding program will begin to show exaggerated characteristics for the selected traits bred for.and losing some in traits further down the the list.

JMHO,
Rik 

MRK:

Listen to Gustav...  The man knows.

To understand the SL/WL split in the breed, one has to go back to the 1950's through the 1980's, when the breed slowly bifurcated into the two types. Do some research on it, but I personally blame the Martin Brothers for this.  Show line dogs are primarily bred for their aesthetics. Working line dogs are mostly bred for working ability and lately for specific physical traits.  IMPO, WL are running the same risk as SL of becoming too market driven and concentrating on a few traits while losing sight of the dog as a whole

Temperament shlould always come first, regardless of the proposed use of the dog.

"From my point of view, the first 3 traits for breeding top s/l would be type, gait then working ability, pretty much in that order."

"Temperament should always come first, regardless of the proposed use of the dog."

Therein lies the discrepancy between the two lines. 

I like excellent type, structure and movement, but not at the expense of temperament  - and it does not need to be..  Many show line dogs do have excellent temperament, but I do agree that this aspect has tended to be ignored as a priority  in many cases.

The difference is a myth larely perpetrated by people wiith "sport"working lines who are the self-appointed saviors of the breed. Why is it we never hear SL people criticizing WL dogs for their alleged work or for failing to conform to the breed standard.? Sport (or "point" dogs) may not have the temperament/drives to be street dogs.

Your last sentence is true Louise, but, how can show people criticize WL folk, when they know WL folk are breeding for the working abilities, first and foremost?  At least the majority are, however, if they do get caught up in the show line structure, than they will be heading down the same slippery slope.

 Why??