Were is the DDR show-line - Page 3

Pharaoh is all DDR and his father is V rated.

Both of Pharaoh's parents have lines to Don Roandsteich who did well in the DDR shows.  He was a gorgeous dog and passed on his incredible good looks and conformation.

Don Rolandsteich  www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/17667.html





Aron vom Poppitz  www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/444418.html



Michele and Pharaoh vom Banach  www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/551839.html

Here is a DDR dog in one of my dogs pedigrees. This dog is DDR and VA rated.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/26777.html

I am glad that I opened this subject because I learned a lot from most of you (only one person tried to twist the subject to make it a discussion of show vs. working line.)
Thanks,
PD: By the way the DDR had an excellent  and very complete format for "breed survey". Worthwile doing some research and reading it.

 

Schbabe and Chris, I agree with both of you in that many of the East breeders did evolve into West lines and make the tranformation to the Western show world for the financial gain. Also, the DDR dogs were not strong in prey drive as they were in defense drive. This often led to slower development of protection routine, more handler sensitivity, as the lack of  prey drive would not give easy recovery from corrections. As the sport world evolved into a prey dominance, these DDR dogs didnot appeal to those who wanted big grips, early development, and high prey. Today, many Sch clubs donot have TD that are very effective with this low prey, high defense, handler sensitive dog. Even moreso, many people get these DDR dogs because of their physical characteristics(dark coloring, big heads, massive bone, balanced conformation), and then become disillusioned as they train in clubs with other dogs(both workinglines and showlines) that have higher prey and progress faster in early training years. Couple this with TDs that are more effective with the "prey" type and judging that caters to the "prey type" and many DDR dogs are first time acquisitons and then people switch to a west dog. 

"Here is a DDR dog in one of my dogs pedigrees. This dog is DDR and VA rated."

ttp://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/26777.html 

...And his grandsire was Don von Rolandsteich! 

The more I hear about Don, the more impressed I am!

Another reason the DDR dogs have fallen out of popularity.... Owner have to be more careful with dogs that have high defense or civil drives, and in our sue-happy society, some would rather not take the chance of owning such a dog.

Vfg, it was never my intention to drag the discussion off topic.  However, I have some pretty strong feelings about current showline dogs, and couldn't let your comment pass.  I probably should have held my tongue, or in this case, fingers...but you were the one that brought the subject up!

It's unfortunate these great dog are becoming just a part of  history now. Let's hope that if they cease to exist in their original form, their genes can at least do something to strengthen the West German dogs in body and temperment.

 

 

 

Actually, I think it is good that these dogs have faded into other lines. They were starting to bottleneck and the same ills that come with bottlenecking was occurring to them. The DDR dogs that I have seen today are not as strong healthwise or temperamentwise as the dogs that were introduced to the country in the late eighties. Dogs like Quindt and Quant vom Barutherland and Jim Neuman, Bodo Grafental, were strong dogs that made great impacts when they came West and had nice progeny that intergrated into the then West dogs. We see this same phenomena with the Czech breeders. Many of the smart international breeders are mixing Czech lines with West workinglines. This is producing some really nicetop sport and police dogs. In Holland and Belgium if you look at top working pedigrees you will see many DDR/West mixes in the third,fourth and fifth generations. In all these cases breeders realize that certain good traits from the DDR or Czech or West working were needed in their respective lines to bring balance back to their lines as they became too typey. (this typey could be too much "D" for the DDR, or too much "prey for the Belgium/Holland, or too much "civil" for the older Czech dogs.)

Sunsilver, I gotta ask, what dogs have you bred, bought, borrowed or stolen that make you an authority on anatomy.

Please post links on PDB. I'm thinking that after the dust settles, you are in the same backyard with Uber and Maggie.

JMHO,
Rik

Yes Sunsilver,

Don Rolandsteich was quite a dog and threw his good genetics very dominantly.

Baldo was a grandson of Don


For comparison, here is a black and white of Don Rolandsteich


Michele

You have the best photos Pharaoh ,as always thanks for sharing . Such beatifiul dogs they are .

Thank you Wuzzup.

I was researching for two years when I finally faced the fact that my beautiful Shadow would not be long for this world.  He was 1/4 DDR, a grandson of David Nebelholz (Don Rolandsteich son).  I bought Shadow in 1993 at a backyard in Cloverdale for 250 or 300 dollars.  He was my first dog.  I knew nothing except that my nieghbor told me to go look at these dogs.  They were stunning-from a pet kennel in Southern California that was breeding their very fine old style American and West German working line offspring dogs to David.
1992 Schulenhaus ad in Dog Fancy

I called Don Simon (David's owner) in the mid nineties.  That is where some of my pictures come from, they were so sweet and sent them to me.  That is how I knew that Shadow's mother looked like a female version of David and Shadow looked just like his mother and grandfather.  Someday, if I can find his mother's pictures, I will post them.
David Nebelholz
  David Nebelholz at three

This is me and my Shadow in 1994, he was 13 months old but you can see the resemblence.


Needless to say, I could not find descendents of David Nebelholz so I started researching Don Rolandsteich and eventually found my beautiful Pharaoh vom Banach.  I am going to make an effort to get some pictures of him properly stacked.  He will be two years old in September on the same day that I will turn 61 years old.  I sure hope I get a really good OFA for my birthday!!!!




Michele