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This is a debate that I have heard and read about a lot! A trainer that lives about 35 minutes away from me says that you shouldn't start obedience before bite work because the dog will look at you as if to ask for direction. But another man who is a k9 officer told me that obedience is the key to controling bite work because without control you can't get the dog to drop the sleeve. Opinions?
All depends on the dog. As very young puppies you can work on focus to you very young as long as it,s balanced with rag work or the such they both go hand in hand.
I agree, depends on the dog...Don't rush your puppy......
Rag work and tug-o-war is excellent for puppies (let puppy win) - introducing pressure in bitework too soon can ruin an otherwise promising young dog.
While doing rag and/or tug-o-war, operant conditioning style obedience is always a good idea. This style of obedience can make the pup think OB is a fun game... Check Michael Ellis DVD's for more info....
Both man are right, each from their own perspective. There is no reason that a pup cant know obedience, as long as its happy, fun and game.... no pressure/correction what so ever. You work with what the pup is able to offer. If you apply pressure and compulsion, then you can have a problem in bite work. I have yet to see a trainer that expects a pup to out on command while getting started in bite work. However, later you will need control in bite work and control is established through obedience. How fast you are able to progress to this state depends largely on how quick the pup will mentally mature.
Bite work,focus work and imprinting. NO CORRECTIONS and they do just fine. Correction at a young age causes hesitation on the sleeve when pups get older. You can always tell , the dog constantly looks back at the handler for instruction. Let you pups be MONSTERS until they are about 7 months old. Alway worked for us here. Pups know sit, heel, down and are started on intense focus at 16 weeks. Once they have mastered these things I dont actually do alot of obedience . kind of flip on to tracking and rag work, once they are on the soft sleeve then we go back to obedience, they remember the puppy stuff so it works very well.
Some believe that you should wait for OB untill bite work has been somewhat developed. Thought being OB is the exact opposite of bite work. And thus will llower drives. For heavy handed trainers this is probably true. If you train OB through the drive of the dog their will be no conflict.
We start obedience at 4-5 weeks with a food lure for sit, down, stand and fuss. All obedience is done in a positive (no pressure) manner. Bite work starts when the pup/dog is mentally ready. It's silly and counter productive to wait until after the bitework is completed to start the obedience... that theory, IMO, came about many many years ago when the working dog had much less drive than they do now. The beginning weeks, for me, is about establishing a relationship with my pup, building drive, learning how to learn. The rest comes later :)
Laurie
With the puppy you lay the foundation for everything and if you do a good job with that you can do anytthing you want, protection, Obedience , tracking.
Nothing developes by itself, the dog is being foremed by you from puppyhood on and if you cant do Bitework yet because your dog is "disobedient" that`s your own fault, you have not done your homework properly:-) nothing to do with maturity.
All the best
Ulf
I think obedience first because the puppy must learn to control it self and be controlled from his "master"!
I think obedience first because the puppy must learn to control it self and be controlled from his "master"!
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